tempted towards direct action...

[mr_mark_sid]

I have the frustration of sitting in buses and riding in taxis which blatantly pay no attention to the bike box at the front of the queue next to traffic lights. When using pedestrian crossings cars often roll into these (mostly not when trapped there during a change in the lights).

I have taken to pointing to the bike box on occasion and I have been considering choosing a nice sunny day to sit there with a camera to photograph offenders. I know that citizens have been loaned speed cameras so encourage good behaviour in 30mph zones. Sitting at the lights with a camera is similar to that. I would need to be with a few witnesses for safety and to state that the car was stopped in the zone (i.e. witness that any photo is not a photo of a moving car...)

Is that 'too much' - too confrontational?

Is it something that would be easier if supported by CTC or done in collaboration with the police?

thoughts welcome

[meic]

Honestly, it is just better to let it drop.
Much better battles to fight, if you wish to expend the energy.

I see ASLs rather like mobile phone use in cars, it is all a bit of a con-trick and nothing can be done to enforce it because the loopholes are too major.
Or even pavement cycling.

We know that we can do nothing about speeding motorists, we have learned to accept that only proper cameras (inspected, calibrated etc) can deal with it and they are very rare things.
Add the other offences to the list.

[661-Pete]

There are certainly things to make an issue of, but this is not one of them. As far as ASLs are concerned, the Law is an ass, and until they sensibly sort out the legality of who can cross what line, when and where - I'd let matters be.

[Cyril Haearn]

meic wrote:

Honestly, it is just better to let it drop.
Much better battles to fight, if you wish to expend the energy.

I see ASLs rather like mobile phone use in cars, it is all a bit of a con-trick and nothing can be done to enforce it because the loopholes are too major.
Or even pavement cycling.

We know that we can do nothing about speeding motorists

There is plenty that can be done to enforce speed limits and phone bans. As Mandela showed, as the events in Germany in 1989 showed, the most "unlikely" things can happen. When navis are standard on new cars, speed control can be standard too. The police could observe drivers telephoning, stop and punish them. Police and traffic wardens could walk along the streets and issue hundreds of tickets and get vehicles towed away, or make them park / wait on the road, not on the pavement or cycle lane. They could do it if they wanted, and they would get plenty of support. The CTC and related organisations (which??) should go on the offensive and demand the police enforce the law.

[meic]

I have considered setting up a camera on the pavement around a blind bend on my road that is a regular accident spot. I could take pictures of the drivers speeding around the corner with a mobile clenched in their hands.

Who do you think the Police would take action against, me or the drivers in the photos?

They know the drivers are there, doing that already and would not like having their noses rubbed in it.

Unlike Mandela or the uprising in Germany, we are a very small minority and easy to get rid of.

[mr_mark_sid]

meic wrote:

Honestly, it is just better to let it drop.
Much better battles to fight, if you wish to expend the energy.

I see ASLs rather like mobile phone use in cars, it is all a bit of a con-trick and nothing can be done to enforce it because the loopholes are too major.
Or even pavement cycling.

We know that we can do nothing about speeding motorists

There is plenty that can be done to enforce speed limits and phone bans. As Mandela showed, as the events in Germany in 1989 showed, the most "unlikely" things can happen. When navis are standard on new cars, speed control can be standard too. The police could observe drivers telephoning, stop and punish them. Police and traffic wardens could walk along the streets and issue hundreds of tickets and get vehicles towed away, or make them park / wait on the road, not on the pavement or cycle lane. They could do it if they wanted, and they would get plenty of support. The CTC and related organisations (which??) should go on the offensive and demand the police enforce the law.

I agree strongly with Cyril Haearn, this is a justice issue and current behaviour is strongly enculturated. A significant proportion of the drivers ignoring the zones are making a direct action of a sort themselves - they are, consciously or otherwise, looking to undermine the change in culture that the bike zones encourage. That sort of resistance needs to be balanced by some sort of challenge...

[meic]

That is a large battle for little reward.

I imagine that there are scores of better causes to fight for from a cycling perspective alone.

And dare I say there are social issues that could be fought over which are even more important than cycling issues.
I agree that cars in the ASLs are an irritant but only a minor one as things are in this country.

[[XAP]Bob]

I have the frustration of sitting in buses and riding in taxis which blatantly pay no attention to the bike box at the front of the queue next to traffic lights. When using pedestrian crossings cars often roll into these (mostly not when trapped there during a change in the lights).

I have taken to pointing to the bike box on occasion and I have been considering choosing a nice sunny day to sit there with a camera to photograph offenders. I know that citizens have been loaned speed cameras so encourage good behaviour in 30mph zones. Sitting at the lights with a camera is similar to that. I would need to be with a few witnesses for safety and to state that the car was stopped in the zone (i.e. witness that any photo is not a photo of a moving car...)

Is that 'too much' - too confrontational?

Is it something that would be easier if supported by CTC or done in collaboration with the police?

thoughts welcome

In a taxi you simply count out the fare, then subtract 3 pounds for each violation.

[tonythompson]

In a taxi you simply count out the fare, then subtract 3 pounds for each violation.[/quote]

This I would like to see

[snibgo]

Slightly off-topic anecdote:

I was in Cambridge shooting some video of bollards going up and down. The camera was on a tripod with a telephoto lens focused on the bollard. The bollard on the other side was broken in the down position, so any motorists could get into the city centre.

While I was still setting up and the camera wasn't on, a car approached the bollard I would be filming, trying to get out of the city. The bollard stayed up, blocking him. It wasn't a taxi and I supposed he didn't have a permit to be there. The car went back and forth a few times but the bollard stayed up.

Then the driver figured out that the bollard on the other side was permanently down so he reversed and moved over to the other side. Just before he went over the bollard, a taxi driver pulled up and shouted, "I wouldn't do that, there's a bloke over there filming you."

The errant driver looked sheepish, turned his car around and drove back towards the city centre. Perhaps he's still there, searching for a way out.

[Rob Archer]

I've often considered mocking up one of those 'Camera' signs you see on the approach to a speed camera and putting it up in strategic locations around the town and seeing if it actually affects driver (and cyclists) behaviour. I was thinking of a couple of traffic light locations but ASLs would be interesting. There are only 2 ASLs in King's Lynn and from observation every vehicle drives into them!

[jezer]

There was a report on the BBC News website earlier today about Government action to stop councils gaining revenue from fining 'innocent motorists' for parking on double yellow lines. It seems the official UK attitude is that offenders should not be held accountable for their actions. Where is all this heading

[irc]

There is plenty that can be done to enforce speed limits and phone bans. As Mandela showed, as the events in Germany in 1989 showed, the most "unlikely" things can happen. When navis are standard on new cars, speed control can be standard too. The police could observe drivers telephoning, stop and punish them.

Like in Edinburgh.

In four months since Police Scotland was created a total of 1200 Edinburgh drivers have been caught speeding.Over the same period the previous year the number was just 350. And the number of Edinburgh drivers caught by police for not using a seatbelt, driving without a licence and driving while using a mobile has also increased.There has been a fourfold increase in fines for speeding in Edinburgh since Police Scotland opened for business.

A total of 869 drivers were caught not wearing a seatbelt between April and July this year compared with 347 for the same period in 2012. Mobile phone offences rose from 421 to 967 and those caught driving without a license rose from 165 to 302.

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2013/09/1 ... t-drivers/

[jezer]

That all sounds good. I look forward to the same result in England

[thirdcrank]

I have the frustration of sitting in buses and riding in taxis which blatantly pay no attention to the bike box at the front of the queue next to traffic lights. When using pedestrian crossings cars often roll into these (mostly not when trapped there during a change in the lights).

I have taken to pointing to the bike box on occasion and I have been considering choosing a nice sunny day to sit there with a camera to photograph offenders. I know that citizens have been loaned speed cameras so encourage good behaviour in 30mph zones. Sitting at the lights with a camera is similar to that. I would need to be with a few witnesses for safety and to state that the car was stopped in the zone (i.e. witness that any photo is not a photo of a moving car...)

Is that 'too much' - too confrontational?

Is it something that would be easier if supported by CTC or done in collaboration with the police?

thoughts welcome

If you are intending to gather evidence of offences with a view to prosecution, it's important to gather evidence which would help to prove an offence or offences. It isn't a specific offence to stop in an ASL area. The relevant offence is failing to conform with a traffic light (which may well result in the vehicle stopping in the ASL area.) If you are snapping motor vehicles, you need evidence that the signal was at red, red + amber, or amber alone when the vehicle crossed the first stop line. If the signal was at amber alone, then you would have to be able to prove that the driver could have stopped safely at the first stop line but didn't. In terms of a prosecution, pictures of stationary vehicles in ASL areas haven't much evidential value on their own, except for things like showing the reg plate or identifying the driver.