Bedford turbo roundabout - it is done

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Mick F
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - construction commencing July?

Postby Mick F » 25 Jun 2014, 7:57pm

Mick F wrote:Pedestrians don't have priority crossing zebra crossings, they have precedence.
Small point, I know.

mjr wrote:I wrote precedence and then edited it because it's a less clear word. I feel it's ambiguous out of its legal context - actually, I looked at http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997 ... tents/made and it's not exactly great there.

Precedence comes from precede, meaning come before something in order or time, or to go in front of.
Mick F. Cornwall

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PaulCumbria
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - construction commencing July?

Postby PaulCumbria » 27 Jun 2014, 1:14pm

Well Bedford's cycling officer was right - the turbo-roundabout will indeed be constructed in July. It appears that the problems have been 'solved'!

http://www.transportxtra.com/magazines/ ... um=twitter

Pete Owens wrote:They've obviously had a quick word with the Dutch following the intervention of the bikers:
"Do you have and problems with motorcycles coming a cropper on these turbo roundabouts of yours?"
"No, we have found they improve safety"
"OK, in that case well crack on with it"


Err, no.

It seems the design has been changed, removing the oh-so-important lane dividers, in agreement with a motorcycling body (BMF) which hadn't been disputing the design in the first place.

Interestingly Graeme Hay, the BMF's head of press releases (I think that's his job title), in-post less than a fortnight when he gave the redesign the nod, has understood at least some of the danger to cyclists better than the cycling bodies involved:

”Hay [said] the designs he examined showed two lengths of raised concrete... lane dividers. “Motorcyclists were very worried about the risks of a rider contacting these 75mm high lane dividers, thinking that this may result in a fall into the path of another vehicle. When I looked at this design I was very surprised that cyclists were not worried about these lane dividers as well. Any contact with these lumps would almost certainly result in a fall.”

Leon Mannings of MAG, the motorcycling lobby group that did complain, has responded:

"This scheme is crazy. If the BMF continues to support it, I have to assume they simply haven’t understood the basic dangers of it.” 

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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby PaulCumbria » 27 Jun 2014, 1:42pm


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mjr
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - construction commencing July?

Postby mjr » 27 Jun 2014, 1:46pm

PaulCumbria wrote:It seems the design has been changed, removing the oh-so-important lane dividers, in agreement with a motorcycling body (BMF) which hadn't been disputing the design in the first place.

I didn't think this would get any worse, but it has. So basically we've ended up with Yet Another Spiral-laned Blender, part-funded by a cycling safety budget :-(

Does the change in a core design element allow DfT to withdraw the cycling safety funding? It was tenuous to spend it on that junction rather than the areas of Bedford with more cycle collisions, even before this latest change.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby [XAP]Bob » 27 Jun 2014, 2:12pm

Has the CTC been raising objections - given that it's cycling budget being used - why are the only parties being quoted motorcyclists?
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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gaz
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby gaz » 27 Jun 2014, 4:22pm

Missing, presumed fed.

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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby squeaker » 27 Jun 2014, 4:52pm

gaz wrote:Cycling Organisation Quote: http://www.sustrans.org.uk/press-releas ... cle-safety
:shock: :roll: :lol: :o
"42"

Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 27 Jun 2014, 4:54pm

PaulCumbria wrote:and from MAG, against:
http://invictamoto.blogspot.co.uk/2014/ ... t.html?m=1

"Contact either Lembit Öpik or Leon Mannings via MAG Central Office." ???!
cycle.travel - maps, journey-planner, route guides and city guides

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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby mjr » 27 Jun 2014, 4:57pm

Richard Fairhurst wrote:
PaulCumbria wrote:and from MAG, against:
http://invictamoto.blogspot.co.uk/2014/ ... t.html?m=1

"Contact either Lembit Öpik or Leon Mannings via MAG Central Office." ???!

They're worried that bikes will become Unidentifiable Flying Objects after being hit by cars or lorries? :lol:
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby [XAP]Bob » 27 Jun 2014, 5:56pm

The work is being part-funded by a grant of £420,000 from the department for Transport Cycle Safety Fund. The total scheme cost is estimated at £490,000.


That's a hell of a "part" to be funding.

Why is this going ahead again?
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby squeaker » 27 Jun 2014, 11:31pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:Why is this going ahead again?
Support from Sustrans?!?
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Pete Owens
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - construction commencing July?

Postby Pete Owens » 28 Jun 2014, 1:51am

PaulCumbria wrote:Well Bedford's cycling officer was right - the turbo-roundabout will indeed be constructed in July. It appears that the problems have been 'solved'!

http://www.transportxtra.com/magazines/ ... um=twitter

Pete Owens wrote:They've obviously had a quick word with the Dutch following the intervention of the bikers:
"Do you have and problems with motorcycles coming a cropper on these turbo roundabouts of yours?"
"No, we have found they improve safety"
"OK, in that case well crack on with it"


Err, no.

It seems the design has been changed, removing the oh-so-important lane dividers, in agreement with a motorcycling body (BMF) which hadn't been disputing the design in the first place.


Actually it is very much worse than that. It is not just the lane dividers, but ALL the cycle-freindly design features appear to have gone. If the drawing in the article is genuine, the perpendicular approach arms, the tight geometry and the constained lanes have also been removed. The cycling ellement of the plan has basically been stripped out in its entirety. Pedestrians have also lost out with the zebra crossings pushed further away from the junction - presumably on the grounds of safety as modified design no longer has the speed reducing effect of the original plan.

Sadly the motor lobby is much more powerful than we are so they can be trusted to attempt to kill off any genuinely innovative scheme that benefits us by restricting motors.

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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - construction commencing July?

Postby reohn2 » 28 Jun 2014, 7:06am

Pete Owens wrote:................Sadly the motor lobby is much more powerful than we are so they can be trusted to attempt to kill off any genuinely innovative scheme that benefits us by restricting motors.


That's de'mock' 'crass'y for you,he who has the biggest toys wins.
You couldn't make it up :? .
Last edited by reohn2 on 28 Jun 2014, 8:01am, edited 1 time in total.
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PaulCumbria
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby PaulCumbria » 28 Jun 2014, 7:59am

Pete Owens wrote:Actually it is very much worse than that. It is not just the lane dividers, but ALL the cycle-freindly design features appear to have gone.

Ah no, fair's fair. Presumably they'll still be installing eight dropped kerbs to give access onto pavements, and eight 'Cyclists Dismount' signs, perhaps...

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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby AlaninWales » 30 Jun 2014, 3:14pm

blog with swear words in it
Says it all really