Bedford turbo roundabout - it is done

Bicycler
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby Bicycler » 30 Jun 2014, 5:31pm

AlaninWales wrote:blog with swear words in it
Says it all really

I agree with the views expressed. Such a shame that some people lack the ability to express themselves without using inappropriate language.

I was sitting on the fence a bit when people kicked up a fuss in the first place. I didn't see it as a great use of cycling money but I did see it as a bit of an improvement for cyclists on the carriageway allowing them to use a primary position more effectively and for those who wished to use the pavement if they were to be allowed to use the Zebras. Now that all the cycling aspects of the scheme have disappeared I really do think that it is outrageous that it is to be funded almost entirely with cycling money.

I call on the CTC and Sustrans to justify their continued support of this and explain how it constitutes good use of cycle money

Psamathe
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby Psamathe » 30 Jun 2014, 5:33pm

Bicycler wrote:I call on the CTC and Sustrans to justify their continued support of this and explain how it constitutes good use of cycle money

+1

Ian

Pete Owens
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby Pete Owens » 1 Jul 2014, 12:05am

AlaninWales wrote:blog with swear words in it
Says it all really


Well it tells us that his use of language is an accurate indicator of his IQ.

After posting very angry sweary blogs telling the world how dangerous this proposal would have been had it been implemented - he now pulishes a very angry sweary blog complaining that it won't be implemented. Possibly he read the posts here explaining the merits of the scheme, and had quietly changed his mind, but there is absolutely no sign that he acknowledged the safety benefits of the design until he took the dropping of the scheme as another excuse to get angry at the loss.

The only consistent theme through his posts is his anger - mostly directed at cyclists.

Those of us who have long campaigned for the sort of changes that were proposed to improve conditions on the road are entitled to feel dissapointment at the dropping of the scheme (and given the campaign waged by ADT and his ilk we will probably not see a similar proposal for some time). The sheer hypocricy of those who campaigned against this proposal getting angry about the success of their campaign begars belief.

AlaninWales
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby AlaninWales » 1 Jul 2014, 12:42pm

I would like to see proof that use of sswear words has any correlaion with (let alone being an indicator of) IQ.

Meanwhile the attacks on this scheme by some cyclists stem largely from the fact that it is using 'Cycle Safety Fund' money to implement what was never a good option for cyclists; now it has become a worse option for cyclists and CTC and Sustrans still support the use of 'Cycle Safety Fund' to implement it (which is hardly a success of his campaign): Hence people (like the blogger) are still annoyed.

thirdcrank
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby thirdcrank » 1 Jul 2014, 4:28pm

Whatever, if anything, is installed in due course, the govts communications people AKA spin doctors or professional liars depending on POV, will publish that £X zillion has been spent on cycling. Highwaymen will continue to bleat that cyclists don't know what they want and none of the national bodies claiming to represent cyclists will make so much as a murmur of dissent.

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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby mjr » 1 Jul 2014, 4:46pm

thirdcrank wrote:Highwaymen will continue to bleat that cyclists don't know what they want and none of the national bodies claiming to represent cyclists will make so much as a murmur of dissent.

Sustrans wants more of the same "for the less confident" dual network pap, but slightly wider with more bikes painted on roads and better bollards - http://www.sustrans.org.uk/news/new-han ... dly-design

Alternatively, CTC wants roads "fundamentally redesigned to be ‘people-friendly’" http://www.ctc.org.uk/campaigning/views ... g-overview while CycleNation wants "attractive streetscapes, economic use of land and simplicity of moving around" http://www.makingspaceforcycling.org/ - I think these national bodies are ready to dissent!

For the first time I can remember, the main debate is no longer segregation against vehicular and I think the London deaths and Stop Killing Cyclists might finally have nudged that past, whatever its drawbacks are. The main debate now seems to be tweaking against completely redesigning: which vision of cycling will win out?
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thirdcrank
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby thirdcrank » 1 Jul 2014, 7:40pm

mjr wrote: .... - I think these national bodies are ready to dissent! ...


I look forward to that (while continuing to breathe normally.)

Tonyf33
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby Tonyf33 » 1 Jul 2014, 11:45pm

That's the thing though, we don't want tweaking, we never have, we want real action, we want real 'drastic' action and not empty words, nor excuses or pathetic reasoning behind backing garbage such as this.
You want the roads safer, you want to reduce traffic/congestion, you want to reduce pollution, you want to encourage people properly onto bikes from all age groups and all abilities make, enabling people to become healthier then damn well do something about it, not just all the rubbish we see time and time again everywhere.

Turn single lane carriageways around towns & cities into one way only with the other side cycles only, mark every single on and off road cycle lane as having priority at junctions that come into confllict with motor vehicles.
Remove on road parking down main network roads/high streets that narrow carriageways massively and create hazards (disabled parking only is acceptable but needs to be enforced rigorously & placed strategically).
Ensure any new road or a road that is being re-built/re-laid to have on road cycle lanes at least 2m wide both sides as a compulsion NOT an option, ensure that road planners/designers actually go out on bikes to see why we complain bitterly about their idiocy, make them do real risk assessments for vulnerable road users so they understand not just put stuff in then wonder why X, Y & Z happened. :twisted:
Ban taxis & motorcycles/mopeds from bus lanes, there should be no right whatsoever for them to have any leeway over and above an everyday car/van etc.
Ban vehicles over 7.5t from entering town & city centres between X and Y hours, if not practical ban them from making left turns and force them to turn right, then right again at the next sets of TL, then go straight on. If that isn't possible..tough, get smaller/safer cleaner vehicles or ensure your business has accesible areas for larger vehicles that do not create death trap situations.

Aside from massively changing the road layout/laws, making penalties for motorvehicle drivers that flout the law harsher, force the CPS & Police to change their attitude/cretinous reasoning toward cyclists and their horrendous reluctance to prosecute for anything except the very worst cases (& sometimes even then only for careless when it's obvious to all & sundry it's dangerous driving or common assault/ABH/GBH or worse!)
they are failing not just cyclists but the general population as a whole & the killing/serious injuries will just keep on going.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby [XAP]Bob » 2 Jul 2014, 9:52am

Bicycler wrote:
AlaninWales wrote:blog with swear words in it
Says it all really

I agree with the views expressed. Such a shame that some people lack the ability to express themselves without using inappropriate language.



After the kerfuffle that this roundabout has caused I'm not so sure it is inappropriate language - not read the rest of his blog, this might be typical.

But we are spending £420,000 of CYCLE SAFETY money to make a road faster and less safe, whilst £70k of ROAD money is being used to put up a pile of cyclist -F*OFF- dismount signs...

I'd be using pretty strong language in my revocation of the cycle safety grant.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby Vorpal » 2 Jul 2014, 3:26pm

A little suggestion.... As they say, turnabout is fair play. How about if we use £800 million or so of roads money on cycle safety, then let the Highways Agency have the scraps?
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby mjr » 2 Jul 2014, 5:36pm

MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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PaulCumbria
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby PaulCumbria » 3 Jul 2014, 9:01am

Sustrans is defending its continued support for this mess:
http://www.sustrans.org.uk/blog/keep-pu ... e-progress

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mjr
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby mjr » 3 Jul 2014, 9:32am

And sustrans's regional officer bravely continues his defence on real blogs, which actually allow discussion, unlike the "na na na we're not listening and we're misleading about motorcyclists' reasons" sustrans page:
I fear he sincerely believes that converting four corners to shared use is worth £420,000.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

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PaulCumbria
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby PaulCumbria » 22 Jul 2014, 11:17am


Pete Owens
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Re: Bedford turbo roundabout - BMF wades in

Postby Pete Owens » 23 Jul 2014, 9:45am

AlaninWales wrote:I would like to see proof that use of sswear words has any correlaion with (let alone being an indicator of) IQ.

The foul langauge gives an intitial impression. I agree that this alone is not proof of the stupidity, which is confirmed by the self contradictory contents.
Meanwhile the attacks on this scheme by some cyclists stem largely from the fact that it is using 'Cycle Safety Fund' money to implement what was never a good option for cyclists;
[/qoute]
He went further than that he argued that the scheme was positively dangerous.
now it has become a worse option for cyclists

And the way he now claims it has become worse is by removing the very design features he was angry about in the first place. You really couldn't make it up.