Proposed improvements and changes in King's Cross

[Philip Benstead]

Proposed improvements and changes in King's Cross

What do you think does it go far enough?

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/streets/kingscross

[AndyBSG]

What do you think does it go far enough?

No idea because the diagram is so small I can't read any of it!

would it be cynical of me to think they've made it so small that no one can can see it well enough to complain so when people start dying on it they can say 'well, no one complained when the plans were shown'

[Philip Benstead]

Look at the bottom of the page

[661-Pete]

Amazing what you can bring about with a few tins of green paint!

I don't know this area very well - at least, not to cycle on - but I'm not keen on the ASLs with left-side feeder lanes. No protection whatever against the feared left-hook.

[AndyBSG]

Is it better than what is currently there? Probably.

Is it the correct solution? No.

My first thought when looking at it is that the green paint is pointless, just painting a solid white line will NOT stop cars encroaching so unless it is physically segregated by something like cones, planters or it's own kerb then it will be abused by cars.

Changing cycle lanes from 'advisory' to 'mandatory' has zero effect unless it's policed by cameras or enforced by a physical divider of some sort and just gives the cyclist a false impression they are safe as long as they're in the lane.

That's my main concern but overall the rest of it seems OK at first glance.

Not too sure about the 'No exit from Birkenhead street onto Euston Road except for cyclists' bit. If drivers get used to that being no exit then they'll not be looking for traffic to come out of that turning so could then be very surprised whern a cyclist comes out of the turning.

[Psamathe]

I don't know what is currently there and don't have massive experience of cycling in cities but

Seems to me there are several short bits of cycle lane so you are regularly leaving and then having to rejoin the vehicular lane. And I see that as a problem in that a driver sees you out of the way in a cycle lane then a few moments later you are "pulling-out" in front of him/her. In my ignorance I would have thought that either get in a cycle lane and stay there or get in primary position in a vehicle lane and stay there. But with cycle lanes only running short distances you are regularly rejoining traffic (from they left side).

Also, again my limited experience is that ASLs can be difficult to get to when there is a traffic queue. On several occasions I have had an ASL available but to get to it I'd have to use the pavement or oncoming traffic lane to get past the already waiting vehicles - so I've waited in the queue, middle of the lane so driver behind has more than seen me.

Ian

[AlaninWales]

Seems to me there are several short bits of cycle lane so you are regularly leaving and then having to rejoin the vehicular lane. And I see that as a problem in that a driver sees you out of the way in a cycle lane then a few moments later you are "pulling-out" in front of him/her. In my ignorance I would have thought that either get in a cycle lane and stay there or get in primary position in a vehicle lane and stay there. But with cycle lanes only running short distances you are regularly rejoining traffic (from they left side).

Precisely. Often these are (IMO) put in place simply so that the LA can announce the total number of cycle lanes they have introduced. For the same cost in paint, you can have 20 new cycle lanes at 10 yards each, or 1 new cycle lane at 200 yards .

Also, again my limited experience is that ASLs can be difficult to get to when there is a traffic queue. On several occasions I have had an ASL available but to get to it I'd have to use the pavement or oncoming traffic lane to get past the already waiting vehicles - so I've waited in the queue, middle of the lane so driver behind has more than seen me.

Ian

ASL from Euston Road to York Way: An experienced cyclist will sit in primary all the way through the corner, an inexperienced cyclist will not and will risk a L hook. The cycle lane starts in the middle of the turn, if you head for this you will be overtaken whilst doing so (probably closely). Once in York Way the lane 'herds' cyclists to the LH side, just in time to end at the first left turning - leaving cyclists in position to be L hooked by vehicles entering this turning from York Way: Conflict is thus designed-in.

Pentonville Road going straight ahead, ASL at end of cycle lane, far enough back from the next LH junction for motors to start overtaking the cyclists who have used the ASL - and L hooking them: Conflict is designed-in.

Gray's Inn Road: Four lanes of motor traffic, cycle lane on left of all four lanes starts after the (double? triple? length) Bus Stop; cyclists will be expected by car drivers to use this lane. To get to this lane when heading south from Caledonian Road, cyclists have to cross all four traffic lanes. If heading north it is of no use to them but many drivers will resent them being in the 'motor vehicle lane' where they will have no protection, with motor vehicles on both sides; this is not something that any inexperienced rider will feel comfortable with (many experienced riders will not be comfortable here either). For those who use the cycle lane to head down Euston Road, it keeps them to the left of motor traffic and then ends just in time to allow that traffic to L hook them turning into Crestfield Street. Conflict is thus designed-in.

Basically, it's .... No - I can't use that word on this forum. The designers of these 'improvements' should be made to cycle around them, in rush hour, for at least a year. Better still they should be sent to learn how to design safe infrastructure in a place which trains traffic engineers to do so (i.e. not UK, where they apparently receive no training whatsoever in how to make streets safe for vulnerable road users to use).

[mjr]

It's cycling as a botched-on afterthought again. For example, the only reason I ever ride on Gray's Inn Road (one of those busy edge-of-Congestion-Charge roads) is because I can't get from Birkenhead Street to York Way, dismounting and using the crossings is slow and difficult when busy with pedestrians, and that problem isn't solved by this proposal. So I'll still be on Gray's Inn Road, except I'd have a tough choice between fighting my way right across three lanes or doing some odd up-onto-the-path-then-left-turn-then-U-turn-then-wait-and-straight-over move which they'd never ask cars to do.

Should we ask for the island in the middle of the Euston/York/Pentonville/Gray's-Inn/Birkenhead star to be basically removed, the Euston Road stop line moved back west of Birkenhead Street and frequent pedestrian/cycle scramble stages to be added to the lights?

I also echo AlanInWales's comments on the York Way lane misdirecting the unwary into conflict with the buses stopping on York Way; and AndyBSG's comments that mandatory cycle lanes will need ANPR camera enforcement to stand any chance of being respected in that area.

The only improvement I see in the plan at first glance is that the lane up Pentonville Road would become mandatory. The current advisory one is scary enough (narrow, slippery red lines, often infringed) that I turn off Pentonville into the estate as soon as you can, or go up York Way or down Belgrove Street to travel parallel to it, depending where I'm going to.

So no, not far enough at all. Tiny tweaking when it needs a radical redesign - it's time to sweep away the ugly 1970s road layout like the railway swept away the ugly 1970s tin shed!

[Steady rider]

On a quick view it looks dicy. Data on vehicles flows on the road system may be helpful. If 4 lanes are required in one direction for Gray's Inn Road not sure. Alternatives proposals may be worth looking at - to compare.

[AlaninWales]

What I didn't realise was that this is part of the 'Cycle Superhighway' north to south!

Alternative plans (rejected by TfL): http://maidstoneonbike.blogspot.co.uk/2 ... endly.html