Cyclists against air pollution?

TonyR
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Re: Cyclists against air pollution?

Postby TonyR » 28 Aug 2014, 2:16pm

JimL wrote:Don't get the relevance of your quotation.

Normally it take a couple of minutes for a small petrol engine to reach it's optimum operating temperature and then it reaches the first traffic jam with warm engine and warm catalyst.


Its that the TRL study found that in simulated real world driving cycles, the catalyst hadn't reached its threshold operating temperature after even 20 minutes of driving for some small cars. Below that threshold temperature the catalyst doesn't work.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Cyclists against air pollution?

Postby Cunobelin » 28 Aug 2014, 6:01pm

IIRC the figures show that over half of motor vehicle journeys are too short for the catalytic converters to actually start working.

reohn2
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Re: Cyclists against air pollution?

Postby reohn2 » 28 Aug 2014, 7:36pm

There was a time when water was so dirty it killed people and made them extremely ill, EEK! can you believe that? :shock:
Of course you can,and it took an act of parliament clean it up once the problem was identified.
We know what's in the air that's making people sick(asthma and other breathing illnesses,cancers,etc)
Why aren't we stopping it?
In a word P-R-O-F-I-T,there's too much money to be made from ICE :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

What's needed is a government with the people's interests at heart,not the present bunch of hypocrits and liars.
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TonyR
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Re: Cyclists against air pollution?

Postby TonyR » 28 Aug 2014, 8:04pm

reohn2 wrote:There was a time when water was so dirty it killed people and made them extremely ill, EEK! can you believe that? :shock:
Of course you can,and it took an act of parliament clean it up once the problem was identified.
We know what's in the air that's making people sick(asthma and other breathing illnesses,cancers,etc)
Why aren't we stopping it?
In a word P-R-O-F-I-T,there's too much money to be made from ICE :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

What's needed is a government with the people's interests at heart,not the present bunch of hypocrits and liars.


What do you propose?

reohn2
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Re: Cyclists against air pollution?

Postby reohn2 » 28 Aug 2014, 8:14pm

TonyR wrote:What do you propose?

A completely integrated,clean,reliable,affordable,public transport system run as a service not as a capitalist venture,and electric(including taxis) in congested areas such a cities and large town centres.
A ban on private vehicles within city limits

A revolution perhaps? :wink:
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TonyR
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Re: Cyclists against air pollution?

Postby TonyR » 28 Aug 2014, 8:32pm

reohn2 wrote:
TonyR wrote:What do you propose?

A completely integrated,clean,reliable,affordable,public transport system run as a service not as a capitalist venture,and electric(including taxis) in congested areas such a cities and large town centres.
A ban on private vehicles within city limits

A revolution perhaps? :wink:


Given that its not going to happen overnight its already on its way in London. I have ridden on hydrogen, electric and hybrid red buses in London and the Tube system is electric already. Congestion charging keeps a lot of vehicles out of the centre. But I'm not sure that there is either a viable electric taxi at present (that has a range comparable to the sorts of distances black cabs do in a day) and it won't be popular with the taxi drivers who would need to scrap all their black cabs and buy new with the added premium that electric vehicles carry.

Taxis are not a good solution though. They do a lot more mileage than the equivalent journey by private vehicle. For example if I am going somewhere by private vehicle I do the mileage there and the mileage back. If I do it by taxi, the taxi does mileage from its present location to mine, does the mileage there, then does more mileage again looking for its next fare with the whole cycle repeated on the return journey. So lots more miles than is necessary and even if they are electric they are still producing pollution, but at the power station rather than on the streets.

TfL is run as a public service but the only real difference between public and private is whether you pay for it through fares or taxes. Either way you are paying.

reohn2
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Re: Cyclists against air pollution?

Postby reohn2 » 28 Aug 2014, 10:47pm

TonyR wrote:
Given that its not going to happen overnight its already on its way in London. I have ridden on hydrogen, electric and hybrid red buses in London and the Tube system is electric already. Congestion charging keeps a lot of vehicles out of the centre. But I'm not sure that there is either a viable electric taxi at present (that has a range comparable to the sorts of distances black cabs do in a day) and it won't be popular with the taxi drivers who would need to scrap all their black cabs and buy new with the added premium that electric vehicles carry.

Taxis are not a good solution though. They do a lot more mileage than the equivalent journey by private vehicle. For example if I am going somewhere by private vehicle I do the mileage there and the mileage back. If I do it by taxi, the taxi does mileage from its present location to mine, does the mileage there, then does more mileage again looking for its next fare with the whole cycle repeated on the return journey.

Every time I see any film footage of London it's awash with cars,taxis,buses,trucks,etc all running on ICE's diesel or petrol,there maybe alternatives but they're a small minority.If the threat of danger,perceived or real,is removed it opens the way for other transport forms.

So lots more miles than is necessary and even if they are electric they are still producing pollution, but at the power station rather than on the streets.

Taxis are not a very inefficient system of transport.
We are going to pollute,I'm polluting now by using the internet,it's about minimising it.ATM we're actively promoting unnecessary pollution by the way we promote both long and short journeys and by concentrating the pollution where it does the most damage,where the most people are,in towns and cities.


the only real difference between public and private is whether you pay for it through fares or taxes.

No it isn't,private companies are there to make a profit either for the owner or shareholders the more profit the more investment in them,corners are cut services are trimmed,that's why they cut services to rural areas or non profit making routes.
Public transport is run as a service to the public and for the public.


Either way you are paying.

But not as much if a service is provided efficiently as non profit making or only making small profits.
The problem is capitalism is seen as the solution when it's problem.

BTW there are other cities outside of London that don't benefit from London's privileges :wink:

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: Cyclists against air pollution?

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 18 Sep 2014, 2:01pm

My diesel car gets very little use, because in the main I cycle everywhere. The tailpipe emissions across 2000 annual mile motoring are far lower than those of a Prius I've a typical 10k.

Then because I'm tight I run it on vegetable oil. Particulate emissions are so low that MOT testers have trouble getting an emissions reading at all, and its as close to carbon neutral as its possible to get in a powered car.

So, when do we start having a pop at cyclists who own filthy polluting petrol cars?
https://themediocrecyclist.home.blog
Self employed MIAS L5.B Instructor.
Warwickshire Lowland Rescue Bike lead.
IPMBA certified member.
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Lapsed CTC Ride Leader, amateur hour stuff from the fun old days.

kwackers
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Re: Cyclists against air pollution?

Postby kwackers » 18 Sep 2014, 2:28pm

Lance Dopestrong wrote:My diesel car gets very little use, because in the main I cycle everywhere. The tailpipe emissions across 2000 annual mile motoring are far lower than those of a Prius I've a typical 10k.

Then because I'm tight I run it on vegetable oil. Particulate emissions are so low that MOT testers have trouble getting an emissions reading at all, and its as close to carbon neutral as its possible to get in a powered car.

So, when do we start having a pop at cyclists who own filthy polluting petrol cars?

For every person like you there are thousands that aren't. Policy is decided by what the majority do, not the odd person who can be bothered to make an effort.

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: Cyclists against air pollution?

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 18 Sep 2014, 2:34pm

That's very flattering, but "chronic lack of dosh" is probably more accurate than saying I made an effort! I wouldn't have a vehicle at all, but Mrs Dopestrong is disabled so it's very useful for taking her out.

Anyway, before I started gabbling, the point I was making is that diesel vehicles or the use to which they are put aren't automatically excessively dirty, so blanket penalising users is misguided.
https://themediocrecyclist.home.blog
Self employed MIAS L5.B Instructor.
Warwickshire Lowland Rescue Bike lead.
IPMBA certified member.
Cyctech C2 hammer and crowbar bodger.
Lapsed CTC Ride Leader, amateur hour stuff from the fun old days.

AlaninWales
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Re: Cyclists against air pollution?

Postby AlaninWales » 18 Sep 2014, 3:59pm

reohn2 wrote:
TonyR wrote:What do you propose?

A completely integrated,clean,reliable,affordable,public transport system run as a service not as a capitalist venture,and electric(including taxis) in congested areas such a cities and large town centres.
A ban on private vehicles within city limits

A revolution perhaps? :wink:

As posted in another topic today: Others agree
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cars-will-cook-the-planet-absent-shift-to-public-transportation/