Pavement Parking

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Mick F
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Re: Pavement Parking

Postby Mick F » 31 Jul 2014, 3:16pm

40?
Next time I see one round here, I'll check and count.
Doubt it's more than 30, but I take your point.

However, don't forget my point that if the hundreds of folk round here needed to use the busses instead of owning a car, the roads would be clogged. Busses have to follow routes and the lanes round here are too narrow for two busses (of any size) to pass.

Also, how are folk going to get to work? By bus? Somehow there aren't enough hours in the day to commute by bus here.

Unworkable.
Sad, but true.
Mick F. Cornwall

Bicycler
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Re: Pavement Parking

Postby Bicycler » 31 Jul 2014, 5:38pm

I did say including the standing capacity (which is often not too different to the seated capacity). Buses usually have the rated passenger carrying capacity written somewhere near the front. The capacity issues aren't insurmountable. Buses can do circular loops or slightly varied routes in different directions to avoid having to pass on narrow stretches. Obviously more people using buses leads to increased frequency of services and more destinations so more journeys become feasible. Limited stop longer distance buses become more viable. Less congestion means shorter journey times. I accept that for some rural communities it may remain impractical. Like I said before, if everybody for whom it was feasible chose not to drive or to car share we wouldn't have the problems we have. Contrary to what some would have us believe the current levels of motor vehicle use are not a requirement of economic viability

reohn2
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Re: Pavement Parking

Postby reohn2 » 31 Jul 2014, 6:01pm

Bicycler wrote:...... Contrary to what some would have us believe the current levels of motor vehicle use are not a requirement of economic viability


In fact for more densely populated areas buses make perfect sense and in a lot of cases could remove the need to even own a car,hiring a vehicle for the times one is needed.
But it would need for public transport to be run as a service and not for profit,which is unheard of in a capitalist profit driven society,so we must make profit wherever we can whilst choking the population on the fumes,causing Asthma,Cancer and other pollution induced diseases not to mention the downright unpleasantness of having to put up with the incessant streams of noisy,frustrating and dangerous traffic for all concerned.And must all have the biggest most unnecessary status symbol :? .
We've built the perfect beast and now it's killing us,madness doesn't begin to describe it :twisted:
Last edited by reohn2 on 31 Jul 2014, 11:09pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AlanD
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Re: Pavement Parking

Postby AlanD » 31 Jul 2014, 8:01pm

When driving to work, there's several roads nearby where there are always parked cars forcing motorists on an otherwise clear road, to stop and wait for the way to become clear. And the houses they are outside do have driveways. This is all so normal and nobody gets the least bit angry about it. I bet if a few cyclists decided to stop in the road and take up the space of one car, then any passing motorist would not hesitate to express his feelings.

Mark1978
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Re: Pavement Parking

Postby Mark1978 » 31 Jul 2014, 8:25pm

These days who can afford to buy a house where you have off street parking? Would love to have a garden and a drive but I just couldn't afford it.

Bicycler
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Re: Pavement Parking

Postby Bicycler » 31 Jul 2014, 11:43pm

Mark1978 wrote:These days who can afford to buy a house where you have off street parking? Would love to have a garden and a drive but I just couldn't afford it.

I get what you are saying, but parking provision is more about the age of the house than its cost. New build affordable houses (flats etc.) no matter how small seem to be built with allocated car parking spaces.

As an aside, how depressing is it when you see someone has tarmacked over their garden and/or knocked down their wall to create a parking space? Nearby, a wall with some lovely old wrought iron railings survived the purges of two world wars only to be sacrificed to our new motorised deities :(

MartinC
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Re: Pavement Parking

Postby MartinC » 1 Aug 2014, 8:16am

Mick F do you think that being clogged with cars does untold damage to the economy?

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Mick F
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Re: Pavement Parking

Postby Mick F » 1 Aug 2014, 8:32am

MartinC wrote:Mick F do you think that being clogged with cars does untold damage to the economy?
No.
Cars allow people to get to work. Yes, they may be delayed, but that is built in in their travelling time allowance. When I had to drive to work, I left home at the "right" time.

Busses OTOH, would only be of any use inside cities and towns. How can people get to work when they live out of town?
Put more busses on? Run them more frequently?
They still have to run on routes not necessarily conducive to efficiency of getting you to work.

Some folk round here work in Plympton - big industrial estates employing hundreds and hundreds of people. In order to get there by a "sensible" bus route, they'd have to go via Callington to Plymouth or Tavistock to Plymouth, and then get a bus from the city centre out to Plympton. This would need three busses each way. I dread to think how long it would take to get to work, perhaps these people wouldn't bother.

Cars can get from here to Plympton in half an hour, maybe 45mins.

We have a nice little estate near here built in the 1980s. All houses have drives, front gardens and most have garages, but they are all full, so the second and third cars per house have to park on the road.

This is the main problem.
One car per person, not one car per household.

Say there's father working and mother too and they need a car each to get to work.
Say there's child in their 20s working too, so he/she needs a car.
That's three cars for one home.

Put them all on busses instead, and get rid of most of their cars. At a stroke, they'd be out of work so would have to move house away from here to nearer to their work instead. At a stroke, our local economy would collapse.
Mick F. Cornwall

mrjemm
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Re: Pavement Parking

Postby mrjemm » 1 Aug 2014, 8:48am

And of those hundreds of folks working in Plympton, and living in the areas you describe, are they all unable to travel in company? Must they all use their little empire 75% empty every morning and evening? I bet a great number of folk could easily share.

Likewise, forward thinking employers, or even regional councils/industrial estate owners/managers could provide shuttles to such areas.

It is largely down to cars being built oversize, yet consistently used for single occupant.

But going back to the OP topic, all these cars, do they really need to be parked on the pavement, rather than the road? While riding around Cornwall a couple of weeks ago, I saw how tiny the lanes were, but around villages, they typically opened up, and cars could've been, and indeed often were it seems, parked down the lane a bit.

Where I live the lane is really quite wide, no idea why, but cars insist on parking on the pavement on both sides regularly, despite there being a school next door, where many parents go with pushchairs. Actually, a high proportion of the pavement cars are parents, but even now in the holidays, there are residents and visitors doing the same.

mrjemm
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Re: Pavement Parking

Postby mrjemm » 1 Aug 2014, 8:57am

Something else that could be argued too, is that scooters and motorbikes make a lot of sense too. They certainly have their drawbacks, but for commuting, scooters are brilliant if it's too far/hard to cycle. Far more fun, a lot cheaper to run, and considerably smaller than a car.

While a mobike commuter, I rarely had a garage or off-road parking at my home, so I found one to rent, even across town in one case, and cycled to it. Got a ride morning and evening, and then onto the noise machine for the long stretch.

Essentially brings to the fore another point- park and ride; folk insist on not using this, yet it helps city traffic a great deal, and even villages/small communities do something along these lines, utilising a community hall car-park or similar if parking in the village is an issue.

But really. Cars. Problem.

reohn2
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Re: Pavement Parking

Postby reohn2 » 1 Aug 2014, 9:43am

There was a time when people lived near to where they worked,their work was generally secure so it made sense to live nearby.Travel could then be either by foot ,bike or public transport,those that had a car used it mostly for pleasure.
The car then became affordable and reliable,opening up new horizons making travel quicker which then lead to people living further away from their workplace,people sought to live outside the urban conurbations and in the rural countryside,which was OK at first then when everyone got in on it...........
Buses are a convenient means of transport for urban and city dwellers and IMO can be for those living in the country too though perhaps with smaller vehicles perhaps more often at certain times.
People today tend value time more than money so if a mode of transport is quicker they'll buy it and use it,business knows this and the economy is geared to it,but we're in danger of the car becoming a liability,but it'll need a seismic shift to change things as people are wedded to the monster created for them.
This country has become obesity capital of Europe the car is a fair contribution to that state of affairs, especially when you see children be ferried very short distances to schools or people who'll park dangerously to save their legs from walking 10m to a shop.
There's got to be a case for curbing unnecessary car use before we all choke,but until people realise the dangers we're stuck with pavement parking,killer fumes in our towns and city centres and the absolute waste of the worlds oil resources and all for short term profit and convenience.
Necessity is the mother of invention,perhaps as a species we won't do anything unless we have to,one thing we do have though is the ability to see where it's leading,yet profit motivated greed controls our future.
It's the capitalist way that we're so head over heels in love with,or otherwise stated as 'the way of the world'
All IMHO of course
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reohn2
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Re: Pavement Parking

Postby reohn2 » 1 Aug 2014, 10:01am

mrjemm wrote:Something else that could be argued too, is that scooters and motorbikes make a lot of sense too. They certainly have their drawbacks, but for commuting, scooters are brilliant if it's too far/hard to cycle. Far more fun, a lot cheaper to run, and considerably smaller than a car.

Only yesterday whilst out for a ride I saw a Honda 50 coming the other way,older chap riding it.It passed by almost silently and I remembered when they seemed to be everywhere,cheap to buy and cheap to run and convenient too,without parking problems

Essentially brings to the fore another point- park and ride; folk insist on not using this, yet it helps city traffic a great deal, and even villages/small communities do something along these lines, utilising a community hall car-park or similar if parking in the village is an issue.

But really. Cars. Problem.

We've used the park n ride in a few cities but what always surprises me is that the car parks are always 'pay n display' which though not a complete discouragement to me, I can understand people are willing to drive into town or city and take their chances of finding a P n D car park there.Which can actually be more convenient for them especially if their stay is a short one.
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mrjemm
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Re: Pavement Parking

Postby mrjemm » 1 Aug 2014, 10:35am

Right now though, I have to succumb to the usefulness of the car... And the limitations of the green bin.

Mr Pickles, the scourge of sense, would love me. Grrr.

MartinC
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Re: Pavement Parking

Postby MartinC » 1 Aug 2014, 10:43am

Mick F wrote:....................................get rid of most of their cars. At a stroke, they'd be out of work......................................


I worked in Zurich for a couple of years. Almost all of my colleagues commuted by public transport and many of them didn't even own cars. I hadn't noticed that the local economy had collapsed. They all seemed pretty well off to me and the quality of life there was very good.

One thing that used to make me chuckle was the poster advert on the trams, buses and trains. It was a picture of a street in town that would've looked pretty normal for anyone from the UK - i.e. it was full of cars. The strapline said (I can't recall the exact German) "would you want it to be like this?". For them it was a no brainer, no sane person would want it like that. In the UK people are brainwashed into thinking that if it's not like that then the sky will fall in.

The UK is essentially a large car park. Congestion is endemic because in most urban areas road capacity (for movement) is severely constricted by parked cars. They're so constricted that people "have" to park on the pavement. The cost to the economy must be enormous. The myth of the economic benefit of the broken window was debunked 150 years ago.

reohn2
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Re: Pavement Parking

Postby reohn2 » 1 Aug 2014, 10:50am

MartinC wrote:.......... "would you want it to be like this?". For them it was a no brainer, no sane person would want it like that. In the UK people are brainwashed into thinking that if it's not like that then the sky will fall in.

The UK is essentially a large car park. Congestion is endemic because in most urban areas road capacity (for movement) is severely constricted by parked cars. They're so constricted that people "have" to park on the pavement. The cost to the economy must be enormous. The myth of the economic benefit of the broken window was debunked 150 years ago.


+1
Along with the belief you have to be the first in the office and the last to leave to have any worth to the company,and that capitalism works.
We work the longest hours in Europe.
What's that got to do with parking?
Think about it.
Last edited by reohn2 on 1 Aug 2014, 10:53am, edited 1 time in total.
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