'Tax Discs - the End of the Road'

[kwackers]

with the owner guilty 'only' of a different misdemenour - a failure to display...

On my motorbike I never bother putting the tax disc on. As a rule it used to last about a month before it got nicked anyway.

Interestingly I got 'tugged' a few months ago. I'd been to the garage at 7:30am and MOT'd it, gone home and taxed it immediately online at 8 and gone to work on it.
Coming home down the motorway PC Plod pulls me up because I'd triggered his in car gadgetry, for whatever reason his computer wasn't showing either the MOT or the tax.
So I showed him the email from the DVLA on my phone and he sent me on my way!
(No mention of failing to display, I suspect it's no longer considered to be a 'real' offence)

[Bicycler]

the "comparatively small... cost would be spread over the year" would be the last straw for many.

We've been hearing that last comment at every petrol price rise for the last forty years. Every one has been about to bring down society as we know it. If people can only trade because they are unfairly subsidised by the peculiarities of an unequal pollution tax then it doesn't strike me as sustainable anyway. Surely if it affected a whole class of workers to the extent of preventing them from working at a given wage their employers would have to pay higher wages (in the same way as your business customers). And what of the hardship of those unfairly penalised by the current system? The rural old people who trundle down to the local town once a week but have to pay the same tax as a 30,000 mile a year sales rep. There will be winners and losers in every scenario but if we're going to have a tax on pollution it should be a fair one, not one which subsidises greater pollution

[thirdcrank]

The Civic Amenities regs (or whatever they are now called) are aimed at abandoned vehicles ie those that have been dumped for good, not those which are parked inconsiderately or to the annoyance of residents. The offence of not displaying the disc is a relic of the days when the presence of a disc was the only easy way to check whether a vehicle was taxed. (When I was a lad, a physical check of the paper records might take weeks, especially if the vehicle had changed hands a few times with new owners living in different local authority areas.) Under the CA regs, the assumption is that a taxed car has not been abandoned. Being occasionally driven away and returned is strong evidence that a vehicle isn't abandoned permanently, rather than inconsiderately parked.

None of that means that other offences are not being committed such as causing an unnecessary obstruction.

==============================================
PS IME "Failing to display" was never considered to be a real offence. IIRC, it only became something for which people were regularly penalised when it became a fixed penalty matter, enforceable by traffic wardens. That was to eliminate the need for establishing the tax position of a vehicle. This thread has had me reminiscing. Although checking the paper records at the Local Taxation Office (LTO) was bad enough, when the DVLC (forerunner of the DVLA) was set up, this degenerated into chaos. Instead of finalising the taxation investigation to be prosecuted with any other offences, we just sent a report to Swansea and left it to them.

[Mick F]

Go to your Council's website, they'll have a button to click to report an abandoned vehicle.
I've done it a few times.
https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/environment ... es-online/

[thirdcrank]

And it does have an explanation of an abandoned vehicle and the difference between that and a vehicle left in a manner which is an offence:

http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/environment- ... -vehicles/

[AlaninWales]

the "comparatively small... cost would be spread over the year" would be the last straw for many.

We've been hearing that last comment at every petrol price rise for the last forty years.

I'm sure ypu're right; I'm equally sure each hike hits the lowly paid casual worker hardest

Every one has been about to bring down society as we know it.

I never implied any such thing: The increase in suffering for those at the bottom of the work ladder (and there will always be someone there, until full equality (regardless of merit or desire) becomes a reality) is unlikely to bring down society.

If people can only trade

Trade? No, if they were traders then the increase cost would be easy to pass on, they are casual workers with little or no control over their employers.

because they are unfairly subsidised by the peculiarities of an unequal pollution tax then it doesn't strike me as sustainable anyway.

Sustainable or not, casual work is the way many live (and has been for centuries).

Surely if it affected a whole class of workers to the extent of preventing them from working at a given wage their employers would have to pay higher wages (in the same way as your business customers).

Or perhaps seek cheaper labour elsewhere? Labour whose movement they can control. Or perhaps offer lower wages because the worker is unable to seek work in as wide an area, so competition between employers is reduced.

And what of the hardship of those unfairly penalised by the current system? The rural old people who trundle down to the local town once a week but have to pay the same tax as a 30,000 mile a year sales rep.

The same VED but not the same tax (fuel is already highly taxed in the UK).

There will be winners and losers in every scenario but if we're going to have a tax on pollution it should be a fair one, not one which subsidises greater pollution

The argument is not whether there should be a tax on pollution but the form such a tax should take (and whether every vehiclular tax should be on pollution). Personally I don't like the idea of hitting those with least, in order to enact a principle whose effect on wider society is debatable..

[Mick F]

Personally I don't like the idea of hitting those with least, in order to enact a principle whose effect on wider society is debatable..

+1

[Mark1978]

what happens if you drive 75miles a day 5 times a week just to get to work and back? It could easily be 18,000miles for people. .

I do! Chester-Le-Street to Stockton every work day.

[Psamathe]

For many, the issue of commuting is also related to our poor public transport system (particularly in rural areas). Whilst this would not address the concerns about self-employed/casual workers, that for so many trying to get to work requires a car is more of a public transport issue than a road tax/cost issue.

So we have a ineffective public transport system as well as a rather unfair vehicle taxation system. And two wrongs don't make a right. We need to sort both.

Whilst with any change there will be winners and losers, I tend to think one of the significant losers were the VED to be moved to petrol (i.e. taxation based on use) would be the SUVy drivers. Those whose vehicles manage 15 mpg is driven efficiently (which they are not). People with small efficient cars who drive them efficiently would be impacted to a lesser extent (though again the extend depending on use).

To an extent the degree anybody would be impacted would depend on choices they have and can make. Living rurally is often a choice. Living a long where from where you work can often be a choice. I accept not always but generally people chose jobs, chose where they live, etc.

I don't know the maths but I also suspect that moving VED to petrol would actually have a minimal impact on the cost pr litre. And maybe encouraging people to drive gentler, to visit the shops less often, for the kids to walk/cycle/bus the 1 mile to and from school, etc. would be a good thing for society and would probably more than make-up for the petrol price increase (so a net saving of the VED cost).

Ian

[Mark1978]

It's not minimal. Last time I worked it out it would be about 15p per litre.

[pstallwood]

You now have 14 days from buying a disc online to having to display it. This is to cover the time it takes for the post to arrive. Note this does not mean that you have 14 days after the expiry of a disc to buy a new one.

Yesterday my wife decided to take my car to work - I can't drive at the moment as I am recovering from a broken ankle - and she noticed that the car was not displaying a current disc. I had bought a disc online in early May and put it behind the old disc in the holder. The intention was that I changed the discs over when we returned from holiday in mid June. However, I broke the ankle whilst on holiday and haven't driven since and totally forgot what I had done. Wife has been driving around from time to time not displaying but all would have looked OK to ANPR.

Peter

[Mark1978]

You now have 14 days from buying a disc online to having to display it. This is to cover the time it takes for the post to arrive. Note this does not mean that you have 14 days after the expiry of a disc to buy a new one.

Yesterday my wife decided to take my car to work - I can't drive at the moment as I am recovering from a broken ankle - and she noticed that the car was not displaying a current disc. I had bought a disc online in early May and put it behind the old disc in the holder. The intention was that I changed the discs over when we returned from holiday in mid June. However, I broke the ankle whilst on holiday and haven't driven since and totally forgot what I had done. Wife has been driving around from time to time not displaying but all would have looked OK to ANPR.

Peter

They are no longer checked, and of course from 1st October there is no requirement to display at all.

[Mick F]

Our VED is due 31st Oct.
No doubt I'll pay it at the local PO as I always do, but this time I won't get a disc ......... just a receipt.

By using the local PO, it keeps it in use and the postmaster gets paid per transaction over the counter. Use it or lose it.

[Psamathe]

Our VED is due 31st Oct.
No doubt I'll pay it at the local PO as I always do, but this time I won't get a disc ......... just a receipt.

By using the local PO, it keeps it in use and the postmaster gets paid per transaction over the counter. Use it or lose it.

Apart from which, when I last tried to do it over the phone you:
a. have to use a premium rate phone number
b. they then wanted to charge a a significant fee to use my debit card (yes, debit NOT credit card)
c. takes longer than calling in and paying postmaster person
(so I gave-up and called-in at the Post Office)

Even easier these days as you no longer need to turn out your MOT and Insurance Certificate.

Ian

[Mark1978]

At least when I pay on 31st October I just pay, and that's it, no waiting for anything in the post or fixing anything on to the windscreen. Nice.

What to do with my old tax disc? Attach it to my bike helmet maybe?