60mph max limit on non-motorway, open to all users roads

SA_SA_SA
Posts: 2360
Joined: 31 Oct 2009, 1:46pm

60mph max limit on non-motorway, open to all users roads

Post by SA_SA_SA »

I still think the CTC should be insisting that no public road, open to slower road users like cyclists, tractors, pedestrians etc, should be allowed a limit higher than 60mph:
i.e. the national limit sign(white circle with black diagonal) should mean 60 even on dual carriageways*.

70mph is for motorways which are deliberately limited to faster vehicles and can thus use special junctions that would be dangerous for slower road users.


* by dual-carriage way I mean a road that looks like a motorway but that all road users are permitted to use.
Last edited by SA_SA_SA on 16 Sep 2014, 10:57am, edited 1 time in total.
------------You may not use this post in Cycle or other magazine ------ 8)
profpointy
Posts: 528
Joined: 9 Jun 2011, 10:34pm

Re: 60mph max limit on non-motorway, open to all roads

Post by profpointy »

be careful what you wish for - a likely outcome might well be fewer roads "open to all" rather than reduced speed limits
User avatar
661-Pete
Posts: 10593
Joined: 22 Nov 2012, 8:45pm
Location: Sussex

Re: 60mph max limit on non-motorway, open to all roads

Post by 661-Pete »

Most cyclists who venture onto dual carriageways have some experience of being overtaken at 70mph plus - it's not pleasant but neither is being overtaken at 60mph. I don't think it would make make the cyclist's experience any more pleasant. Possibly it might change some of the KSI collisions from 'Killed' to 'Seriously Injured'.

More worthwhile, I think, would be to reduce the 60mph limit on many single carriageway roads. In our area quite a lot of dangerous stretches are limited to 50mph. Is 50mph low enough? Why shouldn't they be 40 or even less? But I believe there are rules dictating that 40 and 30 mph limits can't be imposed on rural roads away from town, or are there?
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
boliston
Posts: 60
Joined: 5 Jul 2013, 6:35pm
Location: Taunton
Contact:

Re: 60mph max limit on non-motorway, open to all roads

Post by boliston »

profpointy wrote:be careful what you wish for - a likely outcome might well be fewer roads "open to all" rather than reduced speed limits

a lot of dual carriageways provide access to places so they would need to build an alternative access road if banning cyclists mopeds and horse drawn vehicles, eg like they do with motorway services
Mark1978
Posts: 4912
Joined: 17 Jul 2012, 8:47am
Location: Chester-le-Street, County Durham

Re: 60mph max limit on non-motorway, open to all roads

Post by Mark1978 »

Would make little difference to cyclists as the most will avoid dual carriageways anyway.

Instead there has been calls that since the HGV limit is going up to 50mph, that the car limit should come down to 50mph, so all motor traffic is going at the same speed (in theory)

http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.co ... ins-roads/
Psamathe
Posts: 17650
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: 60mph max limit on non-motorway, open to all roads

Post by Psamathe »

I think the CTC needs to focus its campaigning efforts on changes that stand some chance of being adopted. I cannot see the 60mph happening in the foreseeable future.

Ian
thatruddyvicar
Posts: 37
Joined: 8 Aug 2014, 10:09pm

Re: 60mph max limit on non-motorway, open to all roads

Post by thatruddyvicar »

Near me I often see cyclists pedalling along on a dual carriageway. Overtaken by lorries with 3 ft to spare. Cars tearing past at well over 70. I think they're mad. The amount of quite country roads nearby going to the same places they could ride instead. The roads are there for all, reps lorries, industry, not just for cyclists and leisure. I think I'd rather see a cycling ban on dual carriageways! Better for all concerned.
boliston
Posts: 60
Joined: 5 Jul 2013, 6:35pm
Location: Taunton
Contact:

Re: 60mph max limit on non-motorway, open to all roads

Post by boliston »

thatruddyvicar wrote:Near me I often see cyclists pedalling along on a dual carriageway. Overtaken by lorries with 3 ft to spare. Cars tearing past at well over 70. I think they're mad. The amount of quite country roads nearby going to the same places they could ride instead. The roads are there for all, reps lorries, industry, not just for cyclists and leisure. I think I'd rather see a cycling ban on dual carriageways! Better for all concerned.


A blanket ban on dual carriageways would make cycling though many towns quite difficult as often a normal main road through a town become dual carriageway for short sections. The only way to get to my local tesco is by travelling along a short section of dual carriageway for example.
Bicycler
Posts: 3400
Joined: 4 Dec 2013, 3:33pm

Re: 60mph max limit on non-motorway, open to all roads

Post by Bicycler »

thatruddyvicar wrote:Near me I often see cyclists pedalling along on a dual carriageway. Overtaken by lorries with 3 ft to spare. Cars tearing past at well over 70.

Really? That's terrible! What should be done about this illegal driving?
I'd rather see a cycling ban on dual carriageways

Oh :(
The roads are there for all

Yes. We agree :D But doesn't that include cyclists?
reps lorries, industry

Ah, only important people
not just for cyclists

Not even for cyclists by the sound of it
and leisure

Yes, cyclists spend their lives cycling up and down dual carriageways for the fun of it! They never have important journeys to make. They do not commute. There is no reason why they should want to take the most direct road to their destination like all the other users of the roads.

I'm sorry for singling out your post there, it's nothing personal I assure you. Yours is however a common attitude which presents an obstacle to mass cycling in the UK. The roads are there for all and yet a cyclist is being inconsiderate if he wishes to use particular ones. The cyclist is not a vehicle but a mobile obstruction and nuisance. Poor driving is normalised and held up as an example of why cycling on the road is unsafe. The bicycle is a toy not a means of transport. Cycling is a leisure activity and it matters not to cyclists if they take a less direct route.

It helps to understand that cyclists are generally quite aware of the dangers surrounding them and they are not masochists. If someone chooses to cycle down a busy road it is probably because that busy road is the most convenient (most direct, least incline etc.). Indeed, such roads tend to be unpleasant so the greater convenience must be large enough to offset this in the mind of the cyclist. Now there are all kinds of things that can be done to make main road cycling more pleasant, such as opening good cycle paths which allow cycles to distance themselves from high speed motor traffic whilst retaining the convenience of the direct route. These should be encouraged, but if no-one is going to provide such facilities why should the cyclist be denied their share of the road? Why should the slowest vehicles powered through human effort be obliged to take hillier and more circuitous routes than those with engines and much higher speed capabilities?

Regarding the actual topic of the thread, I don't think that the difference between 60 and 70 is significant enough to make much of a difference to cycle safety. As Mark says, it is a minority of cyclists who ride such roads anyway so the potential benefit is comparatively small. A dual carriageway allows a designated lane for overtaking and there is no chance of an overtake in the face of oncoming traffic so they have the potential to be safer than single carriageways. As I said above I think the only way to make these roads attractive to a significant proportion of cyclists is the provision of segregated facilities and this should be an aim where such roads follow the most direct route between towns. I think much more could be gained by challenging the blanket 60mph National Speed limit for single carriageway roads. Such roads are a much more numerous problem for cyclists.
MartinC
Posts: 2127
Joined: 10 May 2007, 6:31pm
Location: Bredon

Re: 60mph max limit on non-motorway, open to all roads

Post by MartinC »

thatruddyvicar wrote:...............................The roads are there for all.............................................I'd rather see a cycling ban on dual carriageways...........................


Bit of a contradiction there.
Phil Fouracre
Posts: 919
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 12:16pm
Location: Deepest Somerset

Re: 60mph max limit on non-motorway, open to all roads

Post by Phil Fouracre »

Bicycler - perfectly put!
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
thatruddyvicar
Posts: 37
Joined: 8 Aug 2014, 10:09pm

Re: 60mph max limit on non-motorway, open to all roads

Post by thatruddyvicar »

Bicycler - I don't disagree with any of you're points. The only thing I'd say is that the cyclists I usually see on this particular dual carriageway are engaged in sport, I don't know too much about the different cycles races but I think it might be a time trial. I do see them quite often, once would be enough to put me off. That is a very different thing to choosing or needing to make a journey by cycle, I think at least.
Psamathe
Posts: 17650
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: 60mph max limit on non-motorway, open to all roads

Post by Psamathe »

Having been following this thread, and having already commented that I don't think the 60 mph will ever happen, maybe what would be a more effective campaign is to push for a legal minimum clearance distance for cyclists (like they have in France). This (if enforced) would maybe make life a bit safer on those high speed dual carriageways and would probably not cause such a backlash by motorists (and might thus stand a better chance of being introduced).

Some comments above about close 3ft passes on dual carriageways made me think.

Ian
User avatar
horizon
Posts: 11275
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: 60mph max limit on non-motorway, open to all roads

Post by horizon »

Most of the vehicles creating traffic problems in our part of the world (Cornwall) at this time of the year are engaged in leisure activities. I agree with thatruddyvicar - they should be banned (from all roads) to allow cyclists like me to get on with our working lives.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
MartinC
Posts: 2127
Joined: 10 May 2007, 6:31pm
Location: Bredon

Re: 60mph max limit on non-motorway, open to all roads

Post by MartinC »

thatruddyvicar wrote:Bicycler - I don't disagree with any of you're points. The only thing I'd say is that the cyclists I usually see on this particular dual carriageway are engaged in sport, I don't know too much about the different cycles races but I think it might be a time trial. I do see them quite often, once would be enough to put me off. That is a very different thing to choosing or needing to make a journey by cycle, I think at least.


But you said "the roads are there for all" - so I don't understand why you think that what they're doing makes a difference? Perhaps you don't really think that the roads are for all.
Post Reply