Have you been "advised" by the police?

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Redvee
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Re: Have you been "advised" by the police?

Postby Redvee » 23 Sep 2014, 11:24pm

We, Dad and I, got advised, incorrectly, by a PCSO for parking in a bus lane. We'd done the shopping and pulled up outside the door to my flat on a main road in Bristol, he said be quick there's a PCSO walking up so I jumped out and grabbed my shopping off the back seat and closed the door and left my Dad to drive off. The PCSO approached me as my Dad was in the stationary traffic now and said did you know you were parked in a bus lane, no I said, never knew that 3 foot wide lane was a bus lane, I always thought it a cycle lane with the bike symbol painted in it. She walked off silently.

Tonyf33
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Re: Have you been "advised" by the police?

Postby Tonyf33 » 24 Sep 2014, 6:22am

Was 'advised' by attending officer relating to my grey jacket after I was the victim of hit and run 2 .5 years ago. It was 7:30pm and had lights on plus bright overhead street lights at roundabout. Is that your only jacket says he..nope I have others..its not a very good colour or hI vis is it? Me..how many of the emergency services personnel get struck whilst wearing hi-vis and blue flashing lights right next to them whilst on duty, its the failure to look/see and nowt to do with the colours..oh yeah..I see your point.
They utterly failed to do their duty to find the culprit on so many levels it was laughable.
Fortunately that's been the only incident but we dont see much plod in North Herts since they closed 2 of the police stations a few years back.

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Re: Have you been "advised" by the police?

Postby Vorpal » 25 Sep 2014, 12:51pm

There was also this discussion...

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=81622
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=81866
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thirdcrank
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Re: Have you been "advised" by the police?

Postby thirdcrank » 25 Sep 2014, 1:26pm

Vorpal wrote:There was also this discussion...

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=81622
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=81866


Thanks for digging those out, which were posted at the height of the Metropolitan Police's campaign earlier this year, but neither seems to include much in the way of first-hand info about what I've been trying to "research." As always, there's plenty of discussion, some of it hot-under-the-collar, about what's wrong in principle, but few first-hand accounts.

The first linked thread includes a reference to a publicised request by Jenny Jones that cyclists who had been the subject of this should contact her. I wonder how many reports she received. :? Ditto, CTC HQ.

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Re: Have you been "advised" by the police?

Postby Vorpal » 25 Sep 2014, 3:16pm

One of the linked articles included this gem
Last Monday [18 November, 2013], the Met carried out spot-checks on cyclists and HGVs in Vauxhall.

In four hours, the officers stopped 70 lorries and issued 15 fixed penalty notices for offences such as the vehicles not being fit for the road.

They also stopped 100 cyclists, who were given safety advice.

It is quite likely that majority of cyclists who are advised to wear helmets and hi-viz by the police will almost certainly not question this advice.
-the Highway Code includes the same advice
-it's just common sense, isn't it?

Helmets and hi-viz may be hotly debated on cycling forums and among campaigners, but others hardly see them as controversial.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

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Re: Have you been "advised" by the police?

Postby thirdcrank » 25 Sep 2014, 5:57pm

Vorpal wrote:One of the linked articles included this gem
Last Monday [18 November, 2013], the Met carried out spot-checks on cyclists and HGVs in Vauxhall.

In four hours, the officers stopped 70 lorries and issued 15 fixed penalty notices for offences such as the vehicles not being fit for the road.

They also stopped 100 cyclists, who were given safety advice.

It is quite likely that majority of cyclists who are advised to wear helmets and hi-viz by the police will almost certainly not question this advice.
-the Highway Code includes the same advice
-it's just common sense, isn't it?

Helmets and hi-viz may be hotly debated on cycling forums and among campaigners, but others hardly see them as controversial.


One problem with the HC is that it is official advice ie approved by Parliament after consultation with interested parties. Whatever else anybody may lodge complaints about or take legal action against the police, advising road users about the contents of the HC is not only uncontroversial, it's irreproachable from an official POV. As I've posted before, the time to argue about what goes in the HC is at the consultation stage. It goes beyond that eg the HC forms the foundation of prosecutions for many traffic offences, especially things like "due care."

There have been suggestions that advice included in the HC has been portrayed as creating specific offences, which it doesn't and even that fixed penalties have been issued for contraventions of HC advice, both of which are obviously wrong.

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Re: Have you been "advised" by the police?

Postby stork » 30 Sep 2014, 1:32pm

661-Pete wrote:
stork wrote:It happened on this road, where I was heading south-west on the carriageway:
In that situation it seems to be all down to that idiotic railing which seems to go on for miles without a break. How on earth are pedestrians expected to cross the road? And of course, it makes it more dangerous for cyclists who prefer to use the carriageway. On a single-carriageway road, presumably 30mph limited in a residential area, it seems nonsensical.


Pedestrians are expected to go under the road (there's a pedestrian underpass) or to walk all the way along path to the traffic lights and take their chances there (there's no pedestrian phase, and they have to cross two roads to double back on themselves to get to where they would otherwise cross to. On the north side of the road there is a primary school, fire station and 'professional development centre', and a couple of houses.

The limit is 40 mph, with a lot of vehicles exceeding that (when I drive at 40 along here, following traffic usually gains on me and often overtakes).

I've abandoned using this route now, although none of the alternatives are that great either.

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Re: Have you been "advised" by the police?

Postby Tonyf33 » 30 Sep 2014, 10:38pm

thirdcrank wrote:
One problem with the HC is that it is official advice ie approved by Parliament after consultation with interested parties. Whatever else anybody may lodge complaints about or take legal action against the police, advising road users about the contents of the HC is not only uncontroversial, it's irreproachable from an official POV. As I've posted before, the time to argue about what goes in the HC is at the consultation stage. It goes beyond that eg the HC forms the foundation of prosecutions for many traffic offences, especially things like "due care."

There have been suggestions that advice included in the HC has been portrayed as creating specific offences, which it doesn't and even that fixed penalties have been issued for contraventions of HC advice, both of which are obviously wrong.


Nothing is irreproachable, in fact mis-guidance that if proven to be detrimental to life (endangerment/deaths/well being) could well up in a European court for human rights if someone were to take it that far.
CTC should pressing to make several changes to the HC as a matter of urgency but they are more worried about giving their blessing to useless schemes for fear of losing 'funding' :roll: :twisted:

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Re: Have you been "advised" by the police?

Postby thirdcrank » 1 Oct 2014, 7:32am

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=90854

The point I was trying to make is that as the official road safety "bible," the police and the rest of the legal establishment can use it as such. In particular, it's pointless expecting police at the operational level to consider alternatives. This is largely why I spoke out against the CTC's support of the current version of the HC at the time.

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Re: Have you been "advised" by the police?

Postby Tinnishill » 16 Feb 2015, 6:57pm

Tigerbiten wrote:I've been stopped twice when cycling on dual carriageways.
Once in Milton Keynes for not being on the redways. The fact that they were covered in an inch of hail at the time did not make a difference.
And once going past Prestwick Airport. I was told I should have been on the shared use pavement.
Both times I was doing around 15mph, which I think is to fast for shared use pavements when I'm on my bent trike.


About 8 years ago I was stopped by a local patrol car crew. I was cycling on the shared use pavement past Prestwick Airport and was ordered to ride on the dual carriageway. Well, I laughed.
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Re: Have you been "advised" by the police?

Postby Valbrona » 17 Feb 2015, 2:31am

DavidNichol wrote:
Tigerbiten wrote:And once going past Prestwick Airport. I was told I should have been on the shared use pavement.


About 8 years ago I was stopped by a local patrol car crew. I was cycling on the shared use pavement past Prestwick Airport and was ordered to ride on the dual carriageway. Well, I laughed.


Brilliant. Perhaps it was the same lot each time.

But not sure what you mean by 'patrol'. The coppers round my way just do not do 'patrol'. I only see the Local Plod at the supermarket ... on one of their Donut Runs.
I should coco.

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Re: Have you been "advised" by the police?

Postby drossall » 17 Feb 2015, 9:07pm

Slightly off topic, but wasn't there a story from decades ago about a club rider who committed some offence (no lights, RLJing, can't remember) and was shouted at by a bobby on a 3-speed? Our rider laughed and rode off, secure in his fancy bike and riding ability.

Unfortunately for him, said bobby was a top 1st-category racer. Some advice, or possibly worse, was duly dispensed :lol:

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Re: Have you been "advised" by the police?

Postby mjr » 17 Feb 2015, 9:43pm

3 speeds but quite possibly a top gear of about 100" (far higher than mine), so even with equally fit riders, pretty much able to catch a typical fancy bike once it gets moving, especially if said fancy bike is not perfectly maintained or the rider panics and picks too high a gear and twists the chain. It's the range you lose more than the top end with fewer speeds.
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Re: Have you been "advised" by the police?

Postby thirdcrank » 18 Feb 2015, 8:24am

drossall wrote:Slightly off topic, but wasn't there a story from decades ago about a club rider who committed some offence (no lights, RLJing, can't remember) and was shouted at by a bobby on a 3-speed? Our rider laughed and rode off, secure in his fancy bike and riding ability.

Unfortunately for him, said bobby was a top 1st-category racer. Some advice, or possibly worse, was duly dispensed :lol:


I've certainly read that, probably in the comic, and it's possible that I've quoted it on here at some stage. I've known a few colleagues who could shift on a bike. I see one occasionally when he visits family in Gildersome who now lives in France. He regularly rode a 25 in sub 55mins although he was in road traffic so I doubt if he ever patrolled on a bike.

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Si
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Re: Have you been "advised" by the police?

Postby Si » 18 Feb 2015, 9:17am

drossall wrote:Slightly off topic, but wasn't there a story from decades ago about a club rider who committed some offence (no lights, RLJing, can't remember) and was shouted at by a bobby on a 3-speed? Our rider laughed and rode off, secure in his fancy bike and riding ability.

Unfortunately for him, said bobby was a top 1st-category racer. Some advice, or possibly worse, was duly dispensed :lol:


A similar thing happened up the rod from me - this time though it was a kid on a knackered 50cc moped who thought that he could best the copper! What the kid didn't count on was, whereas he had to follow the paths around the park, the copper had a strong MTBing background and just went in a straight line cross country stylee, and soon ran the errant lad to ground.