Why long prison sentences are not the answer

[reohn2]

The video shows that if you want to,you can catch people doing wrong.
However if there's not police on the streets there's no chance of catching people,that is the position the UK is ATM.
It's been deemed by politrickians that we can't afford to police the streets.
Only last week a chief of one police force stated that if the proposed 2015 cuts go ahead his force will collapse and he can't guarantee it to be effective anymore.

[[XAP]Bob]

*I like this one! It would be like shooting fish in a barrel in most of our towns and cities too.

[youtube]lEM52Cvxmq8[/youtube]

Shooting fish in a barrel would be hard compared with this...

I particularity like the last one...

[beardy]

It is still going to take him ten minutes to book them with a lecture and paper work.
So he can process about 150-200 a week. It will not empty the barrel unless we have enough like him to scare the fish away.

[Stradageek]

I have been in the position of sitting by a bed with my wife in it on the Nero Surgical ward not carrain if she would ever be able to walk again.

So I can give my personal feelings on this. A long prison sentence would not have prevented the driver hitting her, it was not a deliberate action on his part. It was a mistake we do not know why he did not look properly but we do know from somebody who knows him that he was in a right state emotionally about it, for over a year to my knowledge.
I feel that anybody who thinks that they never make a mistake when driving and would never hit a pedestrian or cyclists is deluding them selves.
I drive and ride with the above thought in mind.
He did not set out to hurt anyone and was doing his best to drive in a way not to hurt or kill.
My wife elected for the driver improvement program with the thought that education was the best option.
If he had been locked up or banned then after ? months or years his driving standard would be the same or worse.

Some may think this attitude wrong but I agree with her. However for people who offend repeatedly speeding and so on I am of the opinion that education has not worked and they need to be kept of the roads.
I do not care how we can lock them up for a long time or just break their legs and set them backwards. I want to see them never driving again especially when banned.

I must agree. A lot of bad driving is just ignorant driving, people who are ignorant or oblivious of the danger they and their actions represent - ask the police about how people react to speeding courses, the level of ignorance is amazing. Then there are those who have no regard for the law (trying challenging a motorist who is using a phone). For these the only real deterrent (as for many crimes) is the certainty that they will be caught, this is why average speed cameras (God bless them) are so effective. The punishment need not then be very severe - the accumulative grief of many, even small fines, would be enough.

[reohn2]

It is still going to take him ten minutes to book them with a lecture and paper work.
So he can process about 150-200 a week. It will not empty the barrel unless we have enough like him to scare the fish away.

These 'fish' talk to each other
Once they've bubbled enough,fish get to know they'll get caught,err I mean shot

But there still needs to be enough anglers/shooters to empty the barrel of the rotting 'fish'

Metaphor mixing,me?
Never!

[Thermostat9]

The video shows that if you want to,you can catch people doing wrong.
However if there's not police on the streets there's no chance of catching people,that is the position the UK is ATM.
It's been deemed by politrickians that we can't afford to police the streets.

Which is why I wrote - 'It would be far, far better (and probably cheaper) to return to a positively engaged road safety policy' but the system tends not look at the costs of reducing incidents in the same way as they look at the cost of clearing them up.

Only last week a chief of one police force stated that if the proposed 2015 cuts go ahead his force will collapse and he can't guarantee it to be effective anymore.

What else would you expect them to say? "The proposed cuts are a great idea, we can manage with half the money"? Amazingly policing will still happen, crooks will still be apprehended and we won't revert to a lawlwss state.

[thirdcrank]

...
*I like this one! It would be like shooting fish in a barrel in most of our towns and cities too.

[youtube]lEM52Cvxmq8[/youtube]

It would be interesting to know whether that vid shows something that's widespread and regular, or just another case of policing by press release. Several months ago, our local BBC TV news had a vid of an unmarked lorry, crewed by traffic police and equipped to film lorry drivers on their mobiles. And so say all of us. Some friends from elsewhere in the country mentioned seeing a vid of an unmarked police lorry...... Jolly good, not just a local thing. Several months after I'd seen the fist vid, there it was on the same news prog, being presented as though it was some new initiative. I have a sneaky feeling it was one vid, doing the rounds. More recently, I saw something where a driver was nicked by a small posse and when interviewed on camera, he made the point that though he had committed an offence, the number of police involved was overkill. The posse was led by a chief inspector who was also interviewed on camera. Good to see the bosses out of the office, but pull the other one

It's anecdotal, but my understanding is that around here at least, our friendly local police and crime commissioner has reduced the numbers of unmarked police vehicles in favour of more visible patrolling.

[reohn2]

Which is why I wrote - 'It would be far, far better (and probably cheaper) to return to a positively engaged road safety policy' but the system tends not look at the costs of reducing incidents in the same way as they look at the cost of clearing them up.

But once preventative policing was replaced by less police with a firefighting attitude to policing due to those cuts,the problems became worse.
For a return to effective policing we need more police,initially to catch the lawbreakers then when the word gets around that lawbreaking won't be tolerated,the road safety lessons can be learned by how much safer roads are for everyone,not just those surrounded by a tin box,seatbelts and air bags!

I'm all for education but there needs to be educators,and we know how the government treat teachers.BTW some stuff ain't rocket science,like if you speed or drive dangerously there's more chance you'll kill or maim someone,especially vulnerable roadusers.

What else would you expect them to say? "The proposed cuts are a great idea, we can manage with half the money"? Amazingly policing will still happen, crooks will still be apprehended and we won't revert to a lawlwss state.

Up until now since this wretched government got in,I've heard various police chiefs when interviewed telling the press that they could handle the cuts by rearranging resources.It seems they've now found out that the more they say they can handle the cuts the more cuts there are!
It cannot carry on,add to that the ''elected'' police commisioners system joke,which IMHO are only bean counters,and what we now have is a police force on the brink.
If you don't believe me ask a bobby!
If you believe crooks are being apprehended yer blind,this is a gangsters paradise,make no mistake about it.
The only reason crime figures have gone down is because if people don't need an incident number for their insurance claim,the crime isn't being logged.
'It known as cooking the books' it's quite a fashion in politrickal circles.

EDIT:-just heard on local TV news that GMP will loose 30%,Liverpool will lose 25% of it's officers in the lastest round of cuts,A spokesman for GMP said his force will go into meltdown as a result.
Imagine being police officer in those two forces,what would you morale be like on the back of cuts already implemented?

[Psamathe]

Only last week a chief of one police force stated that if the proposed 2015 cuts go ahead his force will collapse and he can't guarantee it to be effective anymore.

What else would you expect them to say? "The proposed cuts are a great idea, we can manage with half the money"? :roll: Amazingly policing will still happen, crooks will still be apprehended and we won't revert to a lawlwss state.

But more drivers will spend more time sending and reading texts in the knowledge that the chances of them being caught has gone from negligible to even less likely. People who aren't even in a hurry will speed through villages and built-up areas even more confidant that they wont get caught with even fewer Police Officers. And any accident where there is any question about less than 110% conviction assured will be dropped without proper investigation because they are just too busy to take further action. etc. etc.

You are probably right when you say "we won't revert to a lawless state". But dangers to the vulnerable will increase, guilty will go unchallenged, etc.

Ian

[irc]

Interestingly there was a 14% increase in traffic convictions in Scotland last year. You can't please everyone though.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scott ... ar-4825194

Scottish Conservative transport spokesman Alex Johnstone said: “People don’t share the police’s obsession with traffic offences.
“They would much rather see efforts going into reducing violent crime, tackling vandalism and damage to property and focus on housebreaking.”

Not sure it's an either or. Doing both seems reasonable.

[reohn2]

Interestingly there was a 14% increase in traffic convictions in Scotland last year. You can't please everyone though.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scott ... ar-4825194

Scottish Conservative transport spokesman Alex Johnstone said: “People don’t share the police’s obsession with traffic offences.
“They would much rather see efforts going into reducing violent crime, tackling vandalism and damage to property and focus on housebreaking.”

Not sure it's an either or. Doing both seems reasonable.

Considering they've cut the police budget to the bone,he probably knows at some point it will have to be either or

BTW a Scottish Conservative must be a rare beast indeed

[yakdiver]

I'm waiting for the out come of “Bethany Mackie” on the 19th of this month to see what she's gets for killing a cyclist while over the limit.

Only 5 year and out in two and a half - a life seems very cheap these days
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/herne-bay/n ... for-28940/

[gaz]

.

[reohn2]

I'm waiting for the out come of “Bethany Mackie” on the 19th of this month to see what she's gets for killing a cyclist while over the limit.

Only 5 year and out in two and a half - a life seems very cheap these days
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/herne-bay/n ... for-28940/

It's took me a while to compose myself after reading this.
The sentence is utterly disgraceful.
Not only will she be free in 2 to 21/2 years,she'll be driving again in 5years subject to passing her driving test.
Is this what society deems to be appropriate punishment for this persons actions?
If so it's despicable.

[Tonyf33]

The video shows that if you want to,you can catch people doing wrong.
However if there's not police on the streets there's no chance of catching people,that is the position the UK is ATM.
It's been deemed by politrickians that we can't afford to police the streets.
Only last week a chief of one police force stated that if the proposed 2015 cuts go ahead his force will collapse and he can't guarantee it to be effective anymore.

Given that the Dispatches undercover operation recently showed how much time wasting, pratting about and generally micturate poor policing goes on I'm sure there are plenty of areas that can be tightened up to make (ALL) police forces more effcient financially (as well as operationally)...a lot more!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq9YiYzqmH4
Sick of hearing whining from the public sector when it comes to cut backs, sort your carp out, become more efficient and do your jobs, you're not on bleeding holiday