'you're supposed to give way to cars'

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MikeF
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Re: 'you're supposed to give way to cars'

Postby MikeF » 6 Dec 2018, 1:42pm

Oldjohnw wrote:In the same way that I tend not to argue with huge lorries when in my car, there are some practical reasons for avoiding cars, sometimes by giving way.

This is not to say for a moment that cars have superior road rights. They don't, but they will always come out best in an incident.
If you cycle on roads you cannot avoid cars. If you don't cycle on roads it's likely you can't travel where you want to go. Each situation is different so it's impossible to be specific about what to do, but you shouldn't be giving way to cars unnecessarily.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

Oldjohnw
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Re: 'you're supposed to give way to cars'

Postby Oldjohnw » 6 Dec 2018, 2:13pm

...you shouldn't be giving way to cars unnecessarily.


I don't. But I'm not going to get into a scrape just to prove how right I am. It won't bring much comfort to my children that 'at least dad was in the right'.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: 'you're supposed to give way to cars'

Postby The utility cyclist » 6 Dec 2018, 7:08pm

Quite literally 15 mins ago I was approaching a pedestrian refuge where a lady and dog where standing, it's a 40mph limit that leads onto the A1, the refuge is some 25m away from a giveway where the road junctions with a roundabout. It shouldn't really be that limit in any case as it's really not suitable and there is always a queue of traffic at peak times anyway.
I take my strong primary on approach, I'm maybe doing 15mph and before I slow down to let the pedestrian cross I get a blare on the horn from behind, so I amble to stop with a good wobble thrown in for measure.
The woman is unsure what to do so I shout to her that she can cross - there's simply no way for motors to get past, she does so without acknowledgement and mr/mrs impatient who wouldn't have been able to get past before the refuge anyhow comes past me as we get onto the elongated roundabout (it's an oval with two defined lanes). Someone else must have been a bit peeved off for holding them up for all of 7 seconds as they sounded their horn as they went past.
This is typical driving standards everywhere, giving way and ackowledging priority is something that far too many motorvehicle drivers simply don't give a stuff about. It should be a fine and 3 points at best each and every time, our weal police force and way we train motorists and allow them to do whatever the hell they please, not to mention allowing motors that are too easy to drive/manoeuvre at speed is in part why we have what we have.
Nobody in government wants to do what is needed, they are feeble, gutless and clearly don't want to save lives/save people from injury and fear. :twisted:

reohn2
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Re: 'you're supposed to give way to cars'

Postby reohn2 » 6 Dec 2018, 7:23pm

The utility cyclist wrote:.......This is typical driving standards everywhere, giving way and ackowledging priority is something that far too many motorvehicle drivers simply don't give a stuff about. It should be a fine and 3 points at best each and every time, our weal police force and way we train motorists and allow them to do whatever the hell they please, not to mention allowing motors that are too easy to drive/manoeuvre at speed is in part why we have what we have.
Nobody in government wants to do what is needed, they are feeble, gutless and clearly don't want to save lives/save people from injury and fear. :twisted:

That about sums it up.
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pete75
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Re: 'you're supposed to give way to cars'

Postby pete75 » 6 Dec 2018, 7:43pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
...you shouldn't be giving way to cars unnecessarily.


I don't. But I'm not going to get into a scrape just to prove how right I am. It won't bring much comfort to my children that 'at least dad was in the right'.


He was right, dead right as he drove along
But now he's as dead as if he'd been wrong.....

drossall
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Re: 'you're supposed to give way to cars'

Postby drossall » 6 Dec 2018, 10:34pm

Patrickpioneer wrote:All the people who have said this to me have been younger than myself, makes me wounder if they did some sort of cycle training in school and as kids they where told to always give way to cars and this has stuck in their minds?

I've long thought that this is the issue. The Cycling Proficiency scheme taught young cyclists not to pull out round parked cars and the like if a car were coming from behind. Now in fact, this is largely because the child is too young to assess whether the motorist will do the right thing*, but the big problem with this teaching is precisely that it forgot that child cyclists grow up to become adult motorists, and therefore it made the future roads more dangerous.

* There's some nuance to this, and I'm certainly not arguing that cyclists should swerve out and throw themselves under the wheels of speeding motorists. However, in general terms, a bike is just a vehicle, and the default position would be that you don't overtake a vehicle that is already going past a parked car unless there's loads of space. And you are definitely overtaking as a driver in that position; there's no concept anywhere in highway law that I can find that allows you to view the cars as the main traffic stream, and the bikes as somehow interloping from the left when they move out.

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Patrickpioneer
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Re: 'you're supposed to give way to cars'

Postby Patrickpioneer » 7 Dec 2018, 7:05am

reohn2 wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:.......This is typical driving standards everywhere, giving way and ackowledging priority is something that far too many motorvehicle drivers simply don't give a stuff about. It should be a fine and 3 points at best each and every time, our weal police force and way we train motorists and allow them to do whatever the hell they please, not to mention allowing motors that are too easy to drive/manoeuvre at speed is in part why we have what we have.
Nobody in government wants to do what is needed, they are feeble, gutless and clearly don't want to save lives/save people from injury and fear. :twisted:

That about sums it up.


Yes it does sum it all up. sadly very well
Pat

Phil Fouracre
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Re: 'you're supposed to give way to cars'

Postby Phil Fouracre » 7 Dec 2018, 9:15am

The utility cyclist wrote:Quite literally 15 mins ago I was approaching a pedestrian refuge where a lady and dog where standing, it's a 40mph limit that leads onto the A1, the refuge is some 25m away from a giveway where the road junctions with a roundabout. It shouldn't really be that limit in any case as it's really not suitable and there is always a queue of traffic at peak times anyway.
I take my strong primary on approach, I'm maybe doing 15mph and before I slow down to let the pedestrian cross I get a blare on the horn from behind, so I amble to stop with a good wobble thrown in for measure.
The woman is unsure what to do so I shout to her that she can cross - there's simply no way for motors to get past, she does so without acknowledgement and mr/mrs impatient who wouldn't have been able to get past before the refuge anyhow comes past me as we get onto the elongated roundabout (it's an oval with two defined lanes). Someone else must have been a bit peeved off for holding them up for all of 7 seconds as they sounded their horn as they went past.
This is typical driving standards everywhere, giving way and ackowledging priority is something that far too many motorvehicle drivers simply don't give a stuff about. It should be a fine and 3 points at best each and every time, our weal police force and way we train motorists and allow them to do whatever the hell they please, not to mention allowing motors that are too easy to drive/manoeuvre at speed is in part why we have what we have.
Nobody in government wants to do what is needed, they are feeble, gutless and clearly don't want to save lives/save people from injury and fear. :twisted:


I had something almost identical a while ago! Cycling on a local A road into large local village, cars parked along opposite side of the road. In aggressive primary to avoid idiots trying to push past, young woman with push chair, young lad and dog! Trying to cross and looking worried. Stopped and waved her across, both waved and thanked me, while driver behind sat on his horn! Waited an excessive amount of time to allow her to cross :-) just to make the point. Amazing amount of abuse when he eventually managed to overtake, about half a mile later, gave him a royal wave, it did leave me with a warm feeling :-)
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

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NUKe
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Re: 'you're supposed to give way to cars'

Postby NUKe » 7 Dec 2018, 11:16am

Have bee n beeped a couple of times very recently, as I haven't changed my style of riding. I did wonder if the press or TV have been encouraging motorists to use there horns. But I always assume the driver is warning me of their presence, as that is what the highway code states they are for :D.

Once had argument with a motorists, this was whilst motorcycling, He was at a side road waiting to pull out the wheels were starting to role so I just gave a quick press onf the horn and continued the short distance home as I got of the bike, I realised that someone was stood behind me, I turned round to a rather red faced guy ,
" Why did you blow your horn" I haven't bothered to type the expletives that came with it. I could see he was spoling for a fight, chest puffed out so my reply was very measured
"Oh that was you at the junction, Just letting you know I was there, just in case you hadn't seen me, It a strange Junction "
No its not a strange Junction. He visibly shrank went "OH I see" and skulked back off to his car. Since I have realised that his reaction was because he thinks of the horn as being there to rebuke other road user or push them out of his way.
NUKe
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reohn2
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Re: 'you're supposed to give way to cars'

Postby reohn2 » 7 Dec 2018, 11:51am

NUKe wrote:........Since I have realised that his reaction was because he thinks of the horn as being there to rebuke other road user or push them out of his way.

Yes all to often nowadays a horn is a 'get out of my way' signal to anyone else on the roads,particularly a slower vehicle that holds up Mr Impatient/MGIF/Iowntheroad/I'mmoreimportantthanyou. :?
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Oldjohnw
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Re: 'you're supposed to give way to cars'

Postby Oldjohnw » 7 Dec 2018, 12:27pm

When a car horn should be sounded according to the police:

A horn should only be used when warning someone of danger, not to indicate your annoyance at a manner of driving.

A horn should not be sounded when stationary on a road at any time, other than at times of danger due to another vehicle on or near the road.

A horn should not be used on a moving vehicle on a restricted road (basically a road that has street lights and a 30mph limit) between the times of 11:30 pm and 7:00 am.

MikeF
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Re: 'you're supposed to give way to cars'

Postby MikeF » 7 Dec 2018, 1:57pm

reohn2 wrote:
NUKe wrote:........Since I have realised that his reaction was because he thinks of the horn as being there to rebuke other road user or push them out of his way.

Yes all to often nowadays a horn is a 'get out of my way' signal to anyone else on the roads,particularly a slower vehicle that holds up Mr Impatient/MGIF/Iowntheroad/I'mmoreimportantthanyou. :?
I think that may have happened to me yesterday as I heard a beep behind me. (it could have been for something else, but I ignored anyway) I was cycling along the middle of the carriageway (it's safest) through the town - overall cars were travelling slowly and queueing. The driver behind may have thought he/she should hold me up rather than the reverse - after all cars are much quicker than bikes. :wink:
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

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The utility cyclist
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Re: 'you're supposed to give way to cars'

Postby The utility cyclist » 7 Dec 2018, 6:30pm

Charlie Alliston was vilified by everyone including the judge in his case for giving an audible warning to the person moving back into his path (as the HC advises to), the rules of the road are so bent against people on bikes it's ridiculous.

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tykeboy2003
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Re: 'your supposed to give way to cars'

Postby tykeboy2003 » 7 Dec 2018, 7:14pm

Oldjohnw wrote:One man said to me, "You have no rights on the road because you don't pay road tax."

Recognising the car he had (same as my own) I replied, "Neither do you". It worked and he drove away.


The law is quite simple, bicycle riders have an absolute right to be on the road, no if or buts.
Conversely a car driver has permission to use the roads provided that;
1) they have a valid driver's license,
2) the vehicle is correctly registered and is roadworthy (must have an MOT certificate where applicable and all lights must be working - many fail on this one)
3) the driver is properly insured,
4) the driver has paid the appropriate vehicle excise duty for the vehicle - no such thing as "Road Tax".

AMMoffat
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Re: 'your supposed to give way to cars'

Postby AMMoffat » 7 Dec 2018, 8:49pm

tykeboy2003 wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:One man said to me, "You have no rights on the road because you don't pay road tax."

Recognising the car he had (same as my own) I replied, "Neither do you". It worked and he drove away.


The law is quite simple, bicycle riders have an absolute right to be on the road, no if or buts.
Conversely a car driver has permission to use the roads provided that;
1) they have a valid driver's license,
2) the vehicle is correctly registered and is roadworthy (must have an MOT certificate where applicable and all lights must be working - many fail on this one)
3) the driver is properly insured,
4) the driver has paid the appropriate vehicle excise duty for the vehicle - no such thing as "Road Tax".


There is another one, sadly not enforced:

5) They drive in a considerate fashion in accordance with the rules of the road.