Scared a cyclist on the road today, my fault

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Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Scared a cyclist on the road today, my fault

Post by Marcus Aurelius »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 10:23am Hi,
Marcus Aurelius wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 10:19am Mistakes are what they are, we all make them. Making a complete balls up of an overtake, in a car, past a cyclist, who had clearly indicated their intention to move, isn’t a ‘mistake’ it’s total incompetence behind the wheel. I’ve found myself in a similar position to the cyclist in question, whilst riding, and had a similar thing happen. That driver ended up being spoken to by the police and given a driver education course, because I had it on camera. I have sympathy for mistakes, I have no sympathy for dangerous incompetence, by drivers.
Very black and white.
The OP says that the junction was a "long way off", if it truly was then the car driver is not so wrong.
It doesn’t matter, if you see a clear signal to move, from the cyclist, don’t try and overtake until the cyclist has moved, don’t assume they were going for the junction in the distance either they may just have realised they’re going the wrong way, and have to get over to the other side of the road, to turn back, doing a legal U turn ( for example). That’s exactly what’s happened to me previously, and normally I don’t get someone trying to overtake me until I’ve completed my manoeuvre.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Scared a cyclist on the road today, my fault

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Cowsham wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 10:00am Vorpal is right -- NEVER overtake at a road junction -- that's what the long white lines are there to tell you.
That would entirely prevent overtaking in large swathes of urban/semi urban environments, and you are assuming that there were solid white lines.

Overtaking a cyclist who then signals right is one thing - that's a judgement call on whether you are already committed to the overtake and can give a little extra room.
Starting to overtake a cyclist who is already signalling right is a different matter.
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Cowsham
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Re: Scared a cyclist on the road today, my fault

Post by Cowsham »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 2:24pm
Cowsham wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 10:00am Vorpal is right -- NEVER overtake at a road junction -- that's what the long white lines are there to tell you.
That would entirely prevent overtaking in large swathes of urban/semi urban environments, and you are assuming that there were solid white lines.

Overtaking a cyclist who then signals right is one thing - that's a judgement call on whether you are already committed to the overtake and can give a little extra room.
Starting to overtake a cyclist who is already signalling right is a different matter.
There'd be traffic lights in an urban environment in busy places -- where the road is a B or A road or faster main road there's broken long white lines ( you don't overtake ) short broken lines you can overtake.
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beanboyyy
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Re: Scared a cyclist on the road today, my fault

Post by beanboyyy »

Just to clarify it was indeed a judgement call. Yes the cyclist wasn't perfect and should of looked behind him before signalling etc but i can't control what he does and can only control the judgement call i had to make and which i unfortunately got wrong. Thankfully he did look before moving/heard me coming which prevented either of us having to brake or swerve or a chance of an accident
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Re: Scared a cyclist on the road today, my fault

Post by peetee »

Assuming your description of the event is accurate I wouldn’t feel bad about your manoeuvre. The cyclist should have looked first to accurately judge the position and speed of all other road users. Whilst they have every right to turn right without being impeded by following vehicles they have to accept that taking a position to the left of the carriageway is effectively yielding to passing traffic that may be travelling at a much higher speed. For a cyclist to change their lane position requires anticipation, good judgement and awareness on their part to make the manoeuvre safer for all.
Last edited by peetee on 22 Apr 2021, 7:15pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mjr
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Re: Scared a cyclist on the road today, my fault

Post by mjr »

beanboyyy wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 9:59am To be honest the whole situation was slightly strange, he was clearly aware of my presence and he didn't appear exactly shocked to see me come past.
Yeah, motorists overtaking on the approaches to junctions when cyclists are signalling right are that common it won't shock many people.

No harm done. Don't worry about it. Seems like you've learned for next time.
tatanab wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 10:12am The rider really should have LOOKED BEHIND BEFORE SIGNALLING. As with the driving mantra, mirror - signal - manoeuvre. Or perhaps in this case the rider was behaving like a motorist and using a signal to mean "I want to move out, please let me at some time in the future". [...]
Or perhaps the rider had indeed checked their mirror before signalling. Some mirrors are pretty subtle. There are plenty of mirror advocates among us and not all of them look behind too, for various reasons.

I completely disagree that that is what signalling means to a motorist, too. Some idiots use it like that, but they should probably be caught and get points.
Pebble wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 12:26pm whatever vehicle you are in or on from an artic to a bicycle you need to know that no one else is about to move into the space you are intending to move into, you can't just stick your arm out or indicators on then change lanes etc. You have to look first. Most other road users will make room for you but you have to give them a chance, not just barge out at a seconds notice.
As I understand it, the cyclist did not change lanes or "barge out". They moved right in the one lane, as preparation for turning right. They are completely entitled to do that. I share your view that looking back for someone overtaking foolishly is a good idea (because in any motorist-cyclist collision, the cyclist is likely to be hurt more, regardless of fault), but it is not absolutely required. The bulk of the responsibility is on the overtaker.
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Pebble
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Re: Scared a cyclist on the road today, my fault

Post by Pebble »

mjr wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 5:04pm As I understand it, the cyclist did not change lanes or "barge out". They moved right in the one lane, as preparation for turning right. They are completely entitled to do that. I share your view that looking back for someone overtaking foolishly is a good idea (because in any motorist-cyclist collision, the cyclist is likely to be hurt more, regardless of fault), but it is not absolutely required. The bulk of the responsibility is on the overtaker.
I had not been referring to the OP in that comment. I was more addressing another post
The space I want to move into is alongside me, so I don't need to look behind for that.
which seems wrong let alone being a very risky thing to do. if someone has committed to overtake then you don't want to move out in front of them, I know they should not be overtaking at a junction but it is a very likely thing for them to be doing
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Cowsham
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Re: Scared a cyclist on the road today, my fault

Post by Cowsham »

I treat all motorists as stupid idiota it's the best policy.
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peetee
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Re: Scared a cyclist on the road today, my fault

Post by peetee »

It’s very difficult to judge in this case as we can only guess as to the road layout, visibility for each user and relative speeds involved. Yes, I too assume that motorists are idiots but I would be thinking a cyclist (or pedestrian) were too if I had to pass them on my bike or in my car. It’s the safest way to think.
In the case described I could see myself as the motorist either passing slowly or increasing my speed depending on how the specifics of the scenario presented themselves.
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Pete Owens
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Re: Scared a cyclist on the road today, my fault

Post by Pete Owens »

It is not at all hard to judge.
Visibility - the overtaking driver is looking forwards so clearly has the better view.
Relative speeds - entirely under the control of the overtaking driver.
Road layout - not really relevant; the vehicle in front has indicated an intention to move right for whatever reason meaning that an imminant move to the right is entirely predictable.
The only exception would be that you are already committed to the overtake - ie alongside the vehicle you are overtaking so that braking causes more problems for the overtakee.

It is not even a cyclist vs driver issue. We see plenty of examples in this forum of idiot cyclists attempting to overtake to the left of left turning vehicles and being surprised at the outcome.

One suggestion for drivers overtaking cyclists is to imagine you are approaching a large truck with a cracked wing mirror driven by a tired driver at the end of a long shift - and you notice the right indicator starting to blink.
peetee
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Re: Scared a cyclist on the road today, my fault

Post by peetee »

Pete Owens wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 8:52pm It is not at all hard to judge.

the vehicle in front has indicated an intention to move right for whatever reason meaning that an imminant move to the right is entirely predictable.
Read the OP’s post again. The driver had already started the overtake manoeuvre when the cyclist indicated right. Speeds of those concerned, time frame, distances and road layout are highly relevant. We can only speculate as to whether the motorist, the cyclist or both were responsible for poor judgement. The situation might well be predictable but if a violent braking manoeuvre was carried out by the driver to avoid a sudden indication and movement by the cyclist the result may well have been worse than a wide and fast overtake as the cyclist started to move.
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rmurphy195
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Re: Scared a cyclist on the road today, my fault

Post by rmurphy195 »

beanboyyy wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 9:09am Was on the way to the supermarket today and started to overtake a cyclist, there were no cars coming the other way and i judged it to be a safe overtake. However as i started to pull out and accelerate the cyclist signalled right, preparing to turn from a major to minor road. Now i haven't driven for 6 months so my judgement was off and at the time i decided it was safer for me to carry on overtaking him wide rather than push hard on the brakes (i think the fact that the junction was a long way off made me feel reassured he wasn't going to lurch to the right too quickly). He checked behind him while i was overtaking (i assume he could hear me accelerating round him but it may also just have been a routine check) and was obviously annoyed at me and rightly so.
I realised straight away that this was my fault and i feel incredibly bad about potentially giving him a fright. Anyway, was just going to say to cyclists always be aware that there are idiota like me on the road and that sometimes mistakes are just a genuine judgement error rather than people trying to act like a dick, although i think more often than not these accidents are caused by people acting like *****. Was also going to say thing i believe this situation could maybe have been avoided if the cyclist had not been riding in the gutter and had maybe made eye contact with me to make his intensions clearer. He did turn round, but then did not signal for another 5-10 seconds, hence why i didn't think he was turning right. Was also just going to ask everyone, when you're being overtaken can you generally hear it, and furthermore has this kind of thing happened to anyone else?
So you'd already commenced your manouvre when the cyclist signalled? If so I'd say it was the cyclists awareness of your presence that was the problem.
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De Sisti
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Re: Scared a cyclist on the road today, my fault

Post by De Sisti »

I have seen cyclists, 'riding in the gutter', stick out a right arm (without checking what's behind) and immediately move to the right, to make a manoeuvre. I see it regularly at this roundabout:Image
Last edited by De Sisti on 23 Apr 2021, 7:35am, edited 1 time in total.
beanboyyy
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Re: Scared a cyclist on the road today, my fault

Post by beanboyyy »

If the cyclist had lurched to the right straight away we would have been fine as I would have had time to react and brake, but it was the fact that he stayed completely over to the left during the whole thing that almost made me think he was expecting me to come past, in hindsight stupid of me but that's what it felt like at the time
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Scared a cyclist on the road today, my fault

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
For the OP
it's very possible that you both decided to signal and manoeuvre at the same time!
If the car driver was to hesitate within a short period of time other cars would've appeared on the road maybe.
Then the situation would be a lot more complicated with other cars in the mix.
Cars don't like waiting behind other cars and if you slow up too much the first thing they do is overtake you, we've all had that Haven't we, we slowed down for an obstacle and we automatically get overtaken by silly soidal brainless Morons.
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