Uninsured e scooters seized

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Grandad
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Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by Grandad »

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/ ... ht-251401/
"Uninsured e scooters seized during Kent Police crackdown on anti-social behaviour"

Are e-scooters subjectto compulsory insurance?
I suspect the real reason was the anti-social use and that the newspaper reporter added his own misinformation about insurance
Stevek76
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by Stevek76 »

e-scooters that are not part of the official trials are basically considered motor vehicles (as is anything that is motor propelled unless it has an exception i.e. electric assist-cycles and 'invalid carriages'). Riders are therefore committing the following offences:

No type approval
No MOT
No Tax
No Insurance
Probably some others.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by thirdcrank »

If the MIB is to believed, there are big numbers of uninsured motor vehicles on the road which. IMO, might be a better target for continuous attention, rather than an occasional "crackdown" on scooters. Of course, they are not immediately obvious to those who push for clampdowns - until they are involved in a collision with one and the driver scarpers.

It's hard to believe that some form of street-legal electric scooter isn't on the way.
Jdsk
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by Jdsk »

thirdcrank wrote: 29 Jul 2021, 7:12amIt's hard to believe that some form of street-legal electric scooter isn't on the way.
I'd put money on it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -operators

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PH
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by PH »

I wonder what the police criteria was. A dozen scooters in a week's operation doesn't seem a lot, I see that many in a short ride into town and they're all subject to being prosecuted (There's no local hire scheme). Were they just targeting those they considered were being used in an anti-social manner?
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simonineaston
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by simonineaston »

A two-tier sytem is emerging here in Bristol... at the south end of the Concord Way (a local cycle path that goes from the city centre, out to the north of the city), the Voi's control system appears to prevent them from working on this particular route, whereas privately-owned e-scooters - Halfords have a large number on display and available for sale - have no such restriction. Thus Voi users either abandon them at the start of the path, or else retrace their route and rejoin the road system. Were Avon & Somerset bobbies to plan a "crack-down" they could do worse than stake out the junction indicated... :lol:
e-scooters route into town
e-scooters route into town
S
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foxyrider
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by foxyrider »

simonineaston wrote: 29 Jul 2021, 11:14am A two-tier sytem is emerging here in Bristol... at the south end of the Concord Way (a local cycle path that goes from the city centre, out to the north of the city), the Voi's control system appears to prevent them from working on this particular route, whereas privately-owned e-scooters - Halfords have a large number on display and available for sale - have no such restriction. Thus Voi users either abandon them at the start of the path, or else retrace their route and rejoin the road system. Were Avon & Somerset bobbies to plan a "crack-down" they could do worse than stake out the junction indicated... :lol: Screenshot 2021-07-29 at 11.07.53.png
Or maybe the B+B through Fishponds, or any of the surrounding streets!
Convention? what's that then?
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Stevek76
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by Stevek76 »

They deactivate on the Bristol-bath path also.

Though I'd heard that those with longer term hires were allowed on these.

Wasn't aware A&S had been targeting these much. They've nabbed a few but usually where the person was already aggravating them in some other manner.

I'd be happy for all low speed, low power, small personal transport to be legal under a shared framework with ebikes & scooters.
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mjr
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by mjr »

Stevek76 wrote: 29 Jul 2021, 12:03pm Though I'd heard that those with longer term hires were allowed on these.
For those unaware, this looks like a loophole for people in some areas to have their "own" personal e-scooter legally for £35 per month, which covers the insurance as well as maintenance. The GPS-based "operation zone" and motor-shutdown zones for shopping centres and so on still seem to exist, so I'm surprised if those cycleways are open to long-term hires but not pay-as-you-go, but who knows? These scooter companies aren't very transparent about their settings. https://www.voiscooters.com/long-term-rentals/
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simonineaston
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by simonineaston »

The whole scooter thing is taking off quite well here in Briz and as I've posted before, I think they're a great alternative to younger drivers using cars or motorscooters. Some of the privately-owned examples can be a bit scary, what with their speed (I expect teenage/young adult owners tweek them, as they have done their personal transort ever since motorised options first appeared!), their silence, the practically non-existent braking power, their lack of lights, their predilection to come out at twilight and their users' confident expection that they're immortal... however, having said all that, I do think that it would be sensible to judge their safety by looking at stats. and not pre-judge them.
We had a good chat about this in the rub-a-dub the other day and there was a pov that thought the lack of significant braking might be ammeliorated by the simple tactic of stepping off them. I'm not so sure... to step off a platform that's travelling at 20 plus mph as some of them appear to do, is unlikely to be risk-free. Although insuring against accident or damage might seem like a sensible precaution, I imagine it would be unpopular with users and difficult to enforce.
EDIT: having not ridden one yet, I'm not confident about claiming they have useless brakes...
S
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Stevek76
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by Stevek76 »

Well a badly maintained bike can do 20mph down Bristol's hills and struggle to stop too..

I'd expect any eventual legal ones to be restricted to the same 15.5mph of e bikes and similarly banned from pavements. There will be problems with illegally modified ones, but that toothpaste is already out of the tube, the only real answer there is a decently funded police service that actually has time for such 'minor' matters.
mjr wrote: 29 Jul 2021, 12:19pm so I'm surprised if those cycleways are open to long-term hires but not pay-as-you-go, but who knows?
It was something I'd heard so take it with a pinch of salt! In terms of transparency, paths like the bbrp & Concorde way are legally parks owned by the councils so Voi have to negotiate permissions for those separately and there may be council influence over final policy. Perhaps long term hires are considered less likely to be used irresponsibly unlike a Payg which the councils may value given periodic issues over users sharing the limited path space.
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mjr
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by mjr »

Stevek76 wrote: 29 Jul 2021, 12:39pm I'd expect any eventual legal ones to be restricted to the same 15.5mph of e bikes and similarly banned from pavements.
Voi are currently limited to 12.5mph which I think gives fitter people a fighting chance of being able to jump off and run if it all goes wrong. Skateboarders posting online seem to claim that they can usually jump off and run up to about 15-20mph, then usually get away with tuck-and-roll up to 30-40mph if wearing protective pads and beyond that it's definitely going to hurt and involve road rash. Has anyone tried it?
There will be problems with illegally modified ones, but that toothpaste is already out of the tube, the only real answer there is a decently funded police service that actually has time for such 'minor' matters.
Yes, these are widespread, especially here in West Norfolk where there is no legal hire option and several shops, including Halfords, with shelves full of them. It's really not good to make policy on the basis of what illegal riders do, as I remind the idiots still insisting on banning cycling to the shops (or even the cycle parking by the shop doors) at any time because some people cycle illegally.
Perhaps long term hires are considered less likely to be used irresponsibly unlike a Payg which the councils may value given periodic issues over users sharing the limited path space.
Quite likely. Of course, the councils should expand the limited path space if it is congested and, if needed, expand the park, but in England, we mainly expand space for motoring, not for active travel :-(
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Stevek76
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by Stevek76 »

Yes, the trials are all limited to 12.5.

Expanding the bbrp is unfortunately a very contentious topic. A small but vocal group of residents in the Easton area put a great deal of value in it as a 'linear park' and the custodians, sustrans, still haven't quite exorcised/re-educated their ranks of silly people who think shared use actually works.

They also seem to be labouring under the opinion that improvements on adjacent road corridors would relieve the demand on the path which seems to ignore that we'd first need to replace Rees with someone who is actually useful about transport and second that induced demand applies to cycling too.
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Mike Sales
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by Mike Sales »

Stevek76 wrote: 29 Jul 2021, 1:36pm second that induced demand applies to cycling too.
Also suppressed demand.
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simonhill
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Re: Uninsured e scooters seized

Post by simonhill »

The whole escooter thing is bizarre. Unless on hire, they are illegal, full stop, but are generally tolerated by the authorities. Admittedly they do sometimes have purges, eg the one in the Op and one here recently where 6 were seized during a road blitz, primarily aimed at motorists.

I certainly see plenty of them. Sometimes ridden by adults with helmets, etc and on the road, but often by kids on pavement, etc. There are even a couple of them locked to the bike racks outside a local station. A mate who has one, reported it's theft to the police. He had managed to catch up with the thief as the scooter needed a key. Nonetheless, the police took the report and never commented on the fact that the scooter was illegal (it was in a shopping precinct).

Hard to think of anything else that is so obviously illegal, that is allowed to carry on without any/much police attention.
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