I paid 5p for a bag on my commute to work.

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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hubgearfreak
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Re: I paid 5p for a bag on my commute to work.

Postby hubgearfreak » 31 Dec 2015, 4:54pm

toomsie wrote:It is competition that drives down costs and improves quality.


we can see that all around. just look at the railways /electricity companies :P

toomsie
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Re: I paid 5p for a bag on my commute to work.

Postby toomsie » 1 Jan 2016, 6:54pm

hubgearfreak wrote:
toomsie wrote:It is competition that drives down costs and improves quality.


we can see that all around. just look at the railways /electricity companies :P


Privatised railroads did work very well before being nationalised at war time.
I am sure even now, they are highly regulated compare to busses like nation
express. http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/econn/econn091.pdf

Another question. If UK Rail is truly privatized how comes Japanese rail companies don't get involve. Japanese rail companies
know how to run a train service.

Personally I am not a fan of railroad. I think they are outdated an limited. I believe tole roads can achieve the same thing but better.
Railroads are basically tole roads with a lot of limitations. Trains can't overtake conveniently, change direction. Railroads cant take emergency services or military vehicles.

TonyR
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Re: I paid 5p for a bag on my commute to work.

Postby TonyR » 1 Jan 2016, 8:16pm

toomsie wrote:Another question. If UK Rail is truly privatized how comes Japanese rail companies don't get involve. Japanese rail companies
know how to run a train service.


Up to a point Lord Copper. The various Japan Rail companies run a good train service. But they were privatised because their predecessor, the publicly owned Japan National Railways, got itself into massive debt (about £200Bn) running a service that cost £1.50 for every £1.00 of income. The solution was to do a privatisation very similar to the UK one - separate train and track companies - and bury the debt into a company, the Japan Settlement Corporation, set up for the purpose. It's amazing that those who praise the Japanese railways and denigrate the British privatisation usually don't appreciate the irony that the UK privatisation closely copied the Japanese model.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: I paid 5p for a bag on my commute to work.

Postby [XAP]Bob » 1 Jan 2016, 8:23pm

toomsie wrote:
hubgearfreak wrote:
toomsie wrote:It is competition that drives down costs and improves quality.


we can see that all around. just look at the railways /electricity companies :P


Privatised railroads did work very well before being nationalised at war time.
I am sure even now, they are highly regulated compare to busses like nation
express. http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/econn/econn091.pdf

Another question. If UK Rail is truly privatized how comes Japanese rail companies don't get involve. Japanese rail companies
know how to run a train service.

Personally I am not a fan of railroad. I think they are outdated an limited. I believe tole roads can achieve the same thing but better.
Railroads are basically tole roads with a lot of limitations. Trains can't overtake conveniently, change direction. Railroads cant take emergency services or military vehicles.


Vehicle density is higher, particularly factoring in the cost of people (drivers) etc.
The efficiency of transport by rail is also hard to beat - steel wheels on a steel track might not be optimum for stopping distances, but rolling efficient is excellent, then you get the aero efficiency as well...

On a regular route (port to hub) then they are a far superior option to roads.
On a commuter route they also make much more sense than roads.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Mike Sales
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Re: I paid 5p for a bag on my commute to work.

Postby Mike Sales » 1 Jan 2016, 8:33pm

Another nice thing about rail is that trains don't run you over as you ride your bike.

TonyR
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Re: I paid 5p for a bag on my commute to work.

Postby TonyR » 1 Jan 2016, 8:52pm

Mike Sales wrote:Another nice thing about rail is that trains don't run you over as you ride your bike.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... train.html

Mike Sales
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Re: I paid 5p for a bag on my commute to work.

Postby Mike Sales » 1 Jan 2016, 9:07pm

Without prejudging the events leading to this collision, I think it is fair to say that its a damn sight easier to avoid being hit by a train. After all, their course is predictable. They don't do punishment passes either, or run you down because the driver is blinded by a low sun.

irc
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Re: I paid 5p for a bag on my commute to work.

Postby irc » 1 Jan 2016, 9:26pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:Vehicle density is higher, particularly factoring in the cost of people (drivers) etc


I don't think so. Even the busiest rail lines have gaps of a minute or two between trains. Buses can travel with 3 second gaps. As for carrying capacity bus lanes can carry more passengers than railways.

3) A dedicated express bus lane has three to four times the capacity of a single railway track. An example is the contra-flow lane serving New York’s bus terminal. That carries 700 45-seat buses in the peak hour, offering over 30,000 seats. In comparison the 30,000 crushed passengers who arrive at Victoria Main Line in the peak hour require four inbound tracks, each wide enough for an express bus lane.


http://www.iea.org.uk/blog/rail-versus-road

pwa
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Re: I paid 5p for a bag on my commute to work.

Postby pwa » 2 Jan 2016, 10:06am

Anyone doubting that rail travel can be useful should try to imagine London without the Tube and surface rail moving people about. Try to imagine all that extra traffic on the streets.

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Vantage
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Re: I paid 5p for a bag on my commute to work.

Postby Vantage » 2 Jan 2016, 10:26am

I live directly opposite a rail line. I've never counted how many carriages they pull, but the freighters carrying coal, wood and other building materials are often so long that they take several minutes to pass my flat.
I have to wonder how many class 1 HGV's with their individual engines and the added carnage to the roads it would take to pull all that.
Quite a few I imagine.

How did we get from 5p plastic bags to trains? :shock:
Bill


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Paulatic
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Re: I paid 5p for a bag on my commute to work.

Postby Paulatic » 2 Jan 2016, 10:57am

I think someone couldn't see the point in having trains.

When I lived out in the wilds not seeing or using trains I might have agreed.
I built my house beside the West Coast mainline. The plot was cheap , as indeed subsequently the CT is low too.
I see trains every day, except just now when they are terminating at Carlisle, and see what they carry. There is a car/van transporter comes by most mornings just before seven. It's always very long and gives you an idea of how many must be sold every day in Scotland. I reckon that alone could be 30 transporters.
Loved it when some bright spark thought that putting the Mail on an airplane was better than using a train. Didn't last long and the mail train now is as big as it ever was.
Unless there are problems you can set your watch by them. Using realtimetrains.co.uk lists all the freight trains as well as passenger. Gives me an insight as to where everything is going and coming from.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: I paid 5p for a bag on my commute to work.

Postby [XAP]Bob » 2 Jan 2016, 4:16pm

irc wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:Vehicle density is higher, particularly factoring in the cost of people (drivers) etc


I don't think so. Even the busiest rail lines have gaps of a minute or two between trains. Buses can travel with 3 second gaps. As for carrying capacity bus lanes can carry more passengers than railways.

3) A dedicated express bus lane has three to four times the capacity of a single railway track. An example is the contra-flow lane serving New York’s bus terminal. That carries 700 45-seat buses in the peak hour, offering over 30,000 seats. In comparison the 30,000 crushed passengers who arrive at Victoria Main Line in the peak hour require four inbound tracks, each wide enough for an express bus lane.


http://www.iea.org.uk/blog/rail-versus-road


At a cost of how many drivers and Diesel engines?

A train of 10 carriages followed by a one minute gap (quite feasible, although we normally leave a bit more) is similar in density to 10 busses with a mere 5-6 second gap - and the busses don't do 100mph...

I did suggest factoring in the driver count etc...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: I paid 5p for a bag on my commute to work.

Postby PDQ Mobile » 2 Jan 2016, 4:56pm

Paulatic wrote:I think someone couldn't see the point in having trains.

When I lived out in the wilds not seeing or using trains I might have agreed.
I built my house beside the West Coast mainline. The plot was cheap , as indeed subsequently the CT is low too.
I see trains every day, except just now when they are terminating at Carlisle, and see what they carry. There is a car/van transporter comes by most mornings just before seven. It's always very long and gives you an idea of how many must be sold every day in Scotland. I reckon that alone could be 30 transporters.
Loved it when some bright spark thought that putting the Mail on an airplane was better than using a train. Didn't last long and the mail train now is as big as it ever was.
Unless there are problems you can set your watch by them. Using realtimetrains.co.uk lists all the freight trains as well as passenger. Gives me an insight as to where everything is going and coming from.


Yes interesting. Exactly my experience of living near a small railway line.
One area where I feel we lag so dreadfully behing is that of elecrification.
For my money an electric train is a thing of power speed and beauty.
The ability to run such a network from a variety of energy sources is just such a massive plus. Wind driven trains -a vision of hope, goodness knows not many of those around.

bikerwaser
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Re: I paid 5p for a bag on my commute to work.

Postby bikerwaser » 2 Jan 2016, 5:05pm

back to plastic bags. I wrote a song about Bags for life. It's about the fact that in our crazy society we can drive our 4x4 to the supermarket, buy honey from New Zealand, wine from South America, Broccoli from Spain and all sorts of goods from around the world but the main thing we're tackling is plastic bag use. I'm all for recycling and have done it before it became trendy and there was even a word for it but it all seems disproportional. not only that we have to ask what difference does it make? I still have to send a bag to landfill in the shape of a bin liner, only this time i have to buy it.

anyway here's my song. hope you enjoy it :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tARRwh-V3I

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Re: I paid 5p for a bag on my commute to work.

Postby Vorpal » 2 Jan 2016, 7:30pm


I like that :D
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom