oldies riding in the cold

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
nosmarbaj
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Re: oldies riding in the cold

Postby nosmarbaj » 21 Jan 2016, 2:56pm

old_windbag wrote:
squeaker wrote: ChrisButch wrote:
One of the factors here, I think, is the air pressure. Freezing winter weather usually means high pressure, ...


Plus cold air is markedly denser than warm air....


Interesting ... I'd never thought before about the effects of temperature and barometric pressure on air resistance. Actually in typical UK weather conditions, temperature will have more effect than pressure. Density is proportional to P/T, where P=pressure and T=Temperature (degrees Kelvin). At sea level P will typically be between, say, 980-1030 mbar - or very roughly a 5% range around the mean. Temperature will typically be between, say, -3 C and 25 C (270 and 298 Kelvin) - or roughly a 10% range.

But if you live in a very hilly area, the pressure will be very roughly 5% lower at 400m than at sea level - so the potential variation due to air pressure (sum of meteorological and altitude effects) will be around 10%.

(Of course both temperature and pressure in the UK is occasionally outside these limits, and there are a few cycle routes above 400m too.)

old_windbag
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Re: oldies riding in the cold

Postby old_windbag » 21 Jan 2016, 5:05pm

It is interesting and although the change in air density between warm temperature and cold may only change average speed by maybe 0.3-0.5mph on top of all the other winter differences it can make a noticeable drop in performance. In the cold we have heavier, "draggier" clothes, long warm up time, reduced circulation to extremities, more caution for road conditions. So at a fixed power it may appear that performance has been lost when thinking back to summer speeds but it isn't as bad as we think as the factors mentioned all have their small part to play. Well at least thats how I try to stay optimistic about it, there are better, warmer, faster days to come....... and lighter bikes with skinny tyres!

ChrisButch
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Re: oldies riding in the cold

Postby ChrisButch » 22 Jan 2016, 12:47pm

I remember that after Wiggins's hour record last year, he said that the pressure of 1030+ in London at the time cost him several extra kilometres, even though the temperature in the Velodrome was over 30c.
Conversely, the 'float mornings' beloved of time triallists are usually days of slack low pressure most frequent in late summer.
Last edited by ChrisButch on 22 Jan 2016, 4:51pm, edited 1 time in total.

old_windbag
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Re: oldies riding in the cold

Postby old_windbag » 22 Jan 2016, 1:19pm

Was it not the case that francesco mosers hour record was at mexico city at 10000 ft altitude so thinner air, to me not comparable to the harder efforts of boardman, wiggins etc. This has the disadvantage of having to acclimatise leading up to the event I guess, but the benefits I'd imagine offset that. Perhaps the hour record should be done only at specific velodromes with a controlled environment, so setting pressure and temperature in the building fixed for the record, awkward but do-able engineering wise. Then it is comparable for all athletes but we'd also need a standard bike too to prevent any bike advantages.
Really can we ever compare athletic performances fairly unless we are all perfect clones of each other, we can never really be on a level playing field one against one, how gloomy. Anyway its no longer cold for the oldies to ride so that'll cheer them up.

PS: Found this interesting link, hour records at altitude

http://www.wolfgang-menn.de/altitude.htm

roberts8
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Re: oldies riding in the cold

Postby roberts8 » 23 Jan 2016, 9:08pm

Now I have retired I only go out 10 degrees or above and it reaches that quite a bit so with thermals and overshoes it is ok.

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Paulatic
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Re: oldies riding in the cold

Postby Paulatic » 23 Jan 2016, 9:55pm

roberts8 wrote:Now I have retired I only go out 10 degrees or above and it reaches that quite a bit so with thermals and overshoes it is ok.


Blimey if I waited for 10 C I'd never get out.
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millimole
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Re: oldies riding in the cold

Postby millimole » 23 Jan 2016, 10:00pm

Early in this thread Paulattic mentioned wearing a Buffalo - I too swear by mine in colder weather. At 60 I'm starting to fell the cold and and getting arthritic fingers.
I can keep my torso warm with the Buffalo, my head warm with hat & Buff, my hands warn with Aldi Lobster gloves, my feet warm with neoprene overshoes, but my legs, particularly my thighs always suffer - sometimes my inner upper thighs are really painful after a cold ride no matter what I wear!
Leicester; Riding my Hetchins since 1971; Audaxing on my Dawes; Riding to work on a Decathlon Hoprider

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Paulatic
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Re: oldies riding in the cold

Postby Paulatic » 24 Jan 2016, 8:48am

Hey Millimole that is exactly what I wear, right down to the ALDI claw gloves
The additional thing I wear, and maybe it's something you should consider, is LIDL micro fleece (94% polyamide 6% elastane) footless tights under my cycling tights. At 4:99 they are excellent value and super warm. They've all gone in my local LIDL but I'm sure there are other similar ones available.
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GrumpyDidcot
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Re: oldies riding in the cold

Postby GrumpyDidcot » 24 Jan 2016, 7:01pm

I'm 52, bike to work most days (25 mile round trip) - beat my target of over 5000K (3300 miles) last year. :D
Fingers and feet are the bits I look after in the cold, the rest of me is fine. My gripe is sucking all that cold air over the teeth. A thin head band has worked wonders keeping my ears warm.
I keep a constant eye on the forecast, and dress the with minimum of layers. All the extra gear - rainproof jacket, tubes, tools, are on the bike instead of a rucksack - I hate having a sweaty back.
The only reason for not cycling for nearly a week now is that the bike is in for repair.
Triban 500SE back with Decathlon for a new rear wheel and bottom bracket - bracket bearings are gone, pedals go round and the wheel stays still!
I should have it back tomorrow.

Merry_Wanderer
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Re: oldies riding in the cold

Postby Merry_Wanderer » 26 Jan 2016, 1:56pm

At 48 I am a mere youngster but I have found that my body temperature can go haywire in the cold. My commute is 14 mile round trip with a hilly first 2 miles. My standard winter commuting kit is Buffalo Big Face top, buff, Lowe Alpine fleece lined mountain cap, Buffalo Teclite trousers, thick walking socks, walking boots (flat pedals). Keeps me warm in all weather. Lowest temperature I have cycled on was -5 and ok on the gritted roads but fell off the bike on black ice 2"weeks ago. Bike was ok and I got away with a gashed knee and bruised ego :-)

HoratioWondersocks
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Re: oldies riding in the cold

Postby HoratioWondersocks » 31 Jan 2016, 8:44pm

Hello
I am 62 .
I cycle regularly in the cold. Can't say I always enjoy it ,but I try to do it regularly.(I just feel the excersise is good , I get restless and agitated if I feel iam stuck in all day)
My rides are not long (even in the summer my max distance rarely goes above 35 miles) but iam always out if I nothing else on ,very regular peddle pusher.
Now I know that a lot of cyclists are for cycling the whole cycling and nothing but the cycling.
But (and I aplogise to purists ) I also like to walk (I just feel it gives another set of muscle groups a work out as well) I will ride out five ten miles and then dismount and dissappear into various country lanes footpaths etc ,maybe a couple of miles and then back on bike for the ride home (unfortunately at this time of year it can involve a sort of slow motion cyclocross as some footpaths become quag and I have to resort to carrying my bike)
Anyways one particular plus point of a few miles of footpathing /walking is that it does warm you up nicely if you have been frozen on your bike ( its particularly good for iced dead feet as the circulation is restored.)
In these Winter months my favourite and very regular route is from my home town ( the earthly paradise of Sutton) to a Epsom downs in Surrey I will get of my bike at the downs and do one of my three or four circuits (they are all of slightly different lengths)walking and pushing bike .The downs serve another function for me as well, the earthly paradise of Sutton is mostly horribly polluted by car fumes ,most of this stink seems to end up in my flat, Epsom downs is fairly elevated (with terrific and daily changing views of London and the surrounding countryside ) and invariably there are strong and sometimes galeforce strong winds and I just open my lungs and breathe fresh cold air.(well fresh as any air can be in the south east of England ,it certainly tastes and smells better than Sutton air to me at least)
Anyways I enjoy my combo of cycling/walking.
The walk bit is good for warming you up if peddling has become a bit of a Winter chore so worth baring in mind even if you are an out and out cyclist.


Cheers
Andy :)

mercalia
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Re: oldies riding in the cold

Postby mercalia » 31 Jan 2016, 10:12pm

HoratioWondersocks wrote:Hello
I am 62 .
I cycle regularly in the cold. Can't say I always enjoy it ,but I try to do it regularly.(I just feel the excersise is good , I get restless and agitated if I feel iam stuck in all day)
My rides are not long (even in the summer my max distance rarely goes above 35 miles) but iam always out if I nothing else on ,very regular peddle pusher.
Now I know that a lot of cyclists are for cycling the whole cycling and nothing but the cycling.
But (and I aplogise to purists ) I also like to walk (I just feel it gives another set of muscle groups a work out as well) I will ride out five ten miles and then dismount and dissappear into various country lanes footpaths etc ,maybe a couple of miles and then back on bike for the ride home (unfortunately at this time of year it can involve a sort of slow motion cyclocross as some footpaths become quag and I have to resort to carrying my bike)
Anyways one particular plus point of a few miles of footpathing /walking is that it does warm you up nicely if you have been frozen on your bike ( its particularly good for iced dead feet as the circulation is restored.)
In these Winter months my favourite and very regular route is from my home town ( the earthly paradise of Sutton) to a Epsom downs in Surrey I will get of my bike at the downs and do one of my three or four circuits (they are all of slightly different lengths)walking and pushing bike .The downs serve another function for me as well, the earthly paradise of Sutton is mostly horribly polluted by car fumes ,most of this stink seems to end up in my flat, Epsom downs is fairly elevated (with terrific and daily changing views of London and the surrounding countryside ) and invariably there are strong and sometimes galeforce strong winds and I just open my lungs and breathe fresh cold air.(well fresh as any air can be in the south east of England ,it certainly tastes and smells better than Sutton air to me at least)
Anyways I enjoy my combo of cycling/walking.
The walk bit is good for warming you up if peddling has become a bit of a Winter chore so worth baring in mind even if you are an out and out cyclist.


Cheers
Andy :)


since you live in South London. The Wandle trail think it is called starting from Carshalton is a rather nice ride not on the road but on tarmaced paths, following the river Wandle

HoratioWondersocks
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Re: oldies riding in the cold

Postby HoratioWondersocks » 4 Feb 2016, 3:16pm

mercalia wrote:
HoratioWondersocks wrote:Hello
I am 62 .
I cycle regularly in the cold. Can't say I always enjoy it ,but I try to do it regularly.(I just feel the excersise is good , I get restless and agitated if I feel iam stuck in all day)
My rides are not long (even in the summer my max distance rarely goes above 35 miles) but iam always out if I nothing else on ,very regular peddle pusher.
Now I know that a lot of cyclists are for cycling the whole cycling and nothing but the cycling.
But (and I aplogise to purists ) I also like to walk (I just feel it gives another set of muscle groups a work out as well) I will ride out five ten miles and then dismount and dissappear into various country lanes footpaths etc ,maybe a couple of miles and then back on bike for the ride home (unfortunately at this time of year it can involve a sort of slow motion cyclocross as some footpaths become quag and I have to resort to carrying my bike)
Anyways one particular plus point of a few miles of footpathing /walking is that it does warm you up nicely if you have been frozen on your bike ( its particularly good for iced dead feet as the circulation is restored.)
In these Winter months my favourite and very regular route is from my home town ( the earthly paradise of Sutton) to a Epsom downs in Surrey I will get of my bike at the downs and do one of my three or four circuits (they are all of slightly different lengths)walking and pushing bike .The downs serve another function for me as well, the earthly paradise of Sutton is mostly horribly polluted by car fumes ,most of this stink seems to end up in my flat, Epsom downs is fairly elevated (with terrific and daily changing views of London and the surrounding countryside ) and invariably there are strong and sometimes galeforce strong winds and I just open my lungs and breathe fresh cold air.(well fresh as any air can be in the south east of England ,it certainly tastes and smells better than Sutton air to me at least)
Anyways I enjoy my combo of cycling/walking.
The walk bit is good for warming you up if peddling has become a bit of a Winter chore so worth baring in mind even if you are an out and out cyclist.


Cheers
Andy :)


since you live in South London. The Wandle trail think it is called starting from Carshalton is a rather nice ride not on the road but on tarmaced paths, following the river Wandle


Hello and thanks for your suggestion.
I may give it a try, but I am a little reluctant as I will be heading towards urban sprawl even though the walk itself is probably very nice.
I know the Carshalton area and Wandle very well.
When I go out for leisure rides I tend to head south or southwest towards the greener parts of Surrey and even the occasional Surrey hill. I can find plenty of good walking here as well.

Cheers Andrew

mercalia
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Re: oldies riding in the cold

Postby mercalia » 4 Feb 2016, 3:38pm

well I assume you have a 60+ card or Freedom Pass to use the tansport in london for free - take a train to Carshalton ( Beeches.) I very rarely ride in London A to B , use trains for that.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: oldies riding in the cold

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 10 Feb 2016, 9:29pm

Hi,
Most uncomfortable ride today, wish I had abandoned and went home.
I normally look at forecast then the temp when I get up at 06.30, about 3 C.
Started to rain on the off and after an hour my hands were wet and cold, I normally go with minimum gear as I normally even on 5c and below sweat.
Had to stop , I was wearing full finger gloves that would be ok but its raining at 3-4C :?
Hands were numb and I struggled to change my gloves, then the pain was about the time I wanted to go home.
Carried on and decided to miss the silly hills on the slopes leading to Dartmoor (ice has kept me off them this year) but on the way back home my hands were going numb again , not wet but could barely feel them, more hand numb than cold.
One of my shoes was filling with water and I could not feel my right foot despite trying to drop and dip my foot, my cheap top was leaking and even my legs which are always warm started to complain with the rain.

When your hands hurt and your feet are numb you don't feel like going fast which is what I needed to warm up.
On the last ten or so miles I stood up a lot to get my feet working, effect was minor.
After half an hour at home I showered and only then did my right toes come back to life :(
Only 30 miles but was in hell, I need some new overshoes and a decent waterproof top.
Temp now 4C.
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