Horrifying hit-and-run in Brighton

[pwa]

Anyone who can pass a normal driving test could just take it a bit easier and pass a test for a large 4x4. It is what happens after the test that matters.

Indeed. But most 4x4's are bought for show. Having to take a test would discourage those who really didn't need one and even if one person in the family felt the desire to own one it's quite possible their partner might not want to do the test.

Also, most folk who drive them don't appreciate their physical properties. They're engineered and programmed to 'feel' like normal cars so they get driven like them - right up to the point where it all goes a bit pear shaped and physics takes over. A test could include explaining why they're not normal cars and that can only be a good thing.

TBH, I'm not against 4x4's as such. But I think there should be a minimum pedestrian safety 'value' and over the years the bar should be raised. I also think that the PLG license class shouldn't include vehicles that weigh neigh on 3 tonnes...

I have a pre-1997 licence that allows me to drive all sorts of vehicles, most of which I have now got round to driving. I agree that cars (including things like Rangerovers) should be more and more designed with crash-friendly features in mind. Sloping bonnets with soft areas, for example.

[661-Pete]

Remember the old 'bullbars' (also dubbed 'child-killers') that used to be standard issue on most 4x4s, but have, thankfully, become less common in recent years? If the car that hit the pedestrian had been fitted with those, my guess is the footage would have been too gruesome to be made public....

Good riddance.

[kylecycler]

Remember the old 'bullbars' (also dubbed 'child-killers') that used to be standard issue on most 4x4s, but have, thankfully, become less common in recent years? If the car that hit the pedestrian had been fitted with those, my guess is the footage would have been too gruesome to be made public....

Good riddance.

Good riddance, right enough - looking back, it's unbelievable that they were ever allowed. I think 'Roo bars', mind you, have saved lives in Australia, but that's different, although with deer numbers increasing by the year in the UK, it's getting to be more of a problem here.

Does anyone remember this, though - the BLMC SRV5, based on an Austin/Morris 1300? It was quite a talking point in the motoring press back then.

This website explains the concept - it seems cock-eyed now, but until then it was hardly considered how cars could be made safer for pedestrians (or even their occupants), so at least it was a start. Unsurprisingly, though, it never made it into production.
http://safety-car.info/esv/76-british-l ... -srv5.html

(gaz might confirm, but I'm guessing that's the first Kazakhstani website ever linked to on the CTC Forum - it's a global village...)

[Flinders]

Anyone who can pass a normal driving test could just take it a bit easier and pass a test for a large 4x4. It is what happens after the test that matters.

Indeed. But most 4x4's are bought for show. Having to take a test would discourage those who really didn't need one and even if one person in the family felt the desire to own one it's quite possible their partner might not want to do the test.

Also, most folk who drive them don't appreciate their physical properties. They're engineered and programmed to 'feel' like normal cars so they get driven like them - right up to the point where it all goes a bit pear shaped and physics takes over. A test could include explaining why they're not normal cars and that can only be a good thing.

TBH, I'm not against 4x4's as such. But I think there should be a minimum pedestrian safety 'value' and over the years the bar should be raised. I also think that the PLG license class shouldn't include vehicles that weigh neigh on 3 tonnes...

+1 all round.

[661-Pete]

One car that my father had, when I was a small kid, proudly displayed this delightful bit of embellishment, sticking out of the bonnet:

...lovingly crafted, and solidly and rigidly enough mounted, to slice right through any unwary pedestrian or cyclist who happens to come into contact.

Happily such things are mostly a matter of history now. Although don't some jags still sport something similar.......

[robing]

Cars etc aren't dangerous. People are.

Guns don't kill people, rabbits do!

Who sang or rapped that? Which song or track is it from?

Goldie Lookin Chain - a rap group from Wales.

[Flinders]

One car that my father had, when I was a small kid, proudly displayed this delightful bit of embellishment, sticking out of the bonnet:

...lovingly crafted, and solidly and rigidly enough mounted, to slice right through any unwary pedestrian or cyclist who happens to come into contact.

Happily such things are mostly a matter of history now. Although don't some jags still sport something similar.......

I think bonnet thingies like that now have to have mounts that fold up on impact or something....unless I imagined that?

[mark a.]

But most 4x4's are bought for show.

[Citation needed.]

[beardy]

Kwackers is an urban dweller, may be he meant that most urban 4x4s are bought for show.

[kwackers]

Kwackers is an urban dweller, may be he meant that most urban 4x4s are bought for show.

Indeed.
I've travelled far and wide and a muddy X5 (or equivalent) is a rare sight.
I remember an episode of Top Gear where Clarkson wondered around London asking their owners why they'd bought one, amazingly most claimed to be 'country folk' that needed one. A quick glance by the camera under the wheel arches was very revealing...

[Vorpal]

But most 4x4's are bought for show.

[Citation needed.]

Is there any other use for a BMW X5?

[beardy]

Kwackers is an urban dweller, may be he meant that most urban 4x4s are bought for show.

Indeed.
I've travelled far and wide and a muddy X5 (or equivalent) is a rare sight.
I remember an episode of Top Gear where Clarkson wondered around London asking their owners why they'd bought one, amazingly most claimed to be 'country folk' that needed one. A quick glance by the camera under the wheel arches was very revealing...

Using Top Gear as a citation for your theories may fall short of best practice but probably good enough (even if totally inappropriate) for a cycling forum discussion.

[kwackers]

Using Top Gear as a citation for your theories may fall short of best practice but probably good enough (even if totally inappropriate) for a cycling forum discussion.

When even Clarkson thinks they're pointless you pretty much don't need any other evidence...

[pwa]

I live in a village at the centre of a network of lanes, and everyone in my street drives normal cars, not 4x4s. There are few 4x4s in the village.

As I said before, I used to drive Ford 4x4 pick-up trucks as part of my job, and they were essential for that. They got me and my tools and materials up farm tracks and forest roads, often pulling a trailer. Mostly I kept in 2 wheel drive, just engaging the 4x4 when traction looked like being an issue. On road, those vehicles gave an uncomfortable ride. Like a lot of commercial 4x4 pick-ups they have crude leaf spring suspension at the back, and they are overly firm when the vehicle is lightly laden. Not something you would want as a family car.

The road oriented 4x4s like the X5 or the Porche Cayenne would be useless offroad. The tyres are unsuitable. They would lose traction as quickly as most other road vehicles. For the same reason they are not even very good on snow.

[RickH]

On the subject of 4WD & tyres, there's an Interesting comparison video on 2WD & winter tyres V 4WD here from Auto Express.

[youtube]mfuE00qdhLA[/youtube]

I must admit to being glad of both 4WD (Suzuki SX4 - which is more of a slightly raised hatchback than a full blown 4x4) & winter tyres particularly when it snows as we live on a hill that peaks at over 20% in places. When it snowed a couple of weeks ago we had no trouble getting home - no noticeable loss of traction - but had to negotiate our way past cars on the main road that were going more side to side than forwards, where my cycling GPS logs tell me it gets to 9% (Chorley Old Road out of Bolton up past Old Links Golf Course for those that know the area).

Rick.