Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

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Vorpal
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Vorpal » 20 Aug 2016, 2:28am

Mick F wrote:Best places for pedestrians on a non-walkway road is on the outside of the bends.

Fine, stay on the right generally on the straights, but NOT on a tight hidden righthander, as the traffic coming towards you won't see you until the very last second.

Stay visible.
Just like we cyclists do.

That depends on circumstances. I've certainly been on roads where two crossings were likely riskier than staying put for the bend, and also where the edge conditions, like hedges overhanging, made it as bad, or even worse on the better visibility side.
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Feek
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Feek » 5 Sep 2016, 8:59pm

I've not read through the whole thread.

My new bike comes with a tiny little thing that barely meets the description of a bell, it just goes 'ting' if I flick the lever hard enough. However, I've used it a few times just when coming up behind people on shared cycleways/paths and I think every time, they've looked around, noticed me and moved out of the way. I do make a point of slowing right down as I pass.

I'd love an old style bell with a proper brrrrriiiiiiiinnnggg sound though but I do wonder if that would be considered aggressive.

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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Annoying Twit » 5 Sep 2016, 9:57pm

Feek wrote:I've not read through the whole thread.

My new bike comes with a tiny little thing that barely meets the description of a bell, it just goes 'ting' if I flick the lever hard enough. However, I've used it a few times just when coming up behind people on shared cycleways/paths and I think every time, they've looked around, noticed me and moved out of the way. I do make a point of slowing right down as I pass.

I'd love an old style bell with a proper brrrrriiiiiiiinnnggg sound though but I do wonder if that would be considered aggressive.


Lion Bell Works bell! I have one, and it's great. Mine is brass, and now looks quite vintage. It really has a nice bell sound. People hear it more than other bells I've used, it seems.

You can hear the sound on their website: http://www.lionbellworks.co.uk

Note: I have no connection with Lion Bell Works other than being a satisfied customer.

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Feek
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Feek » 5 Sep 2016, 10:06pm

Annoying Twit wrote:Lion Bell Works bell! I have one, and it's great. Mine is brass, and now looks quite vintage. It really has a nice bell sound. People hear it more than other bells I've used, it seems.

That's certainly a nice bell but it's still a ding, not the brrrrrriiiiiiiiinnnnngggg sound that I'm thinking of from when I was a kid. Mind you, it's a lot less aggressive that the style I'm thinking of. Brass or nickel though, that is the question?

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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby mjr » 6 Sep 2016, 12:09am

A bring bell isn't aggressive if you push the lever once slowish. Actually, if you paddle the lever quickly, I think it sounds more panicked than aggressive!
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby wahoofish » 6 Sep 2016, 8:59pm

I have always found shouting "Straaaaaaaavvaaaaaaa" at the top of my lungs generally clears the path so I don't have to slow down, or negatively affect the segment I am trying to get a pb on.

P.S. Only joking


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Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Heltor Chasca » 6 Sep 2016, 9:15pm

Annoying Twit wrote:
Feek wrote:I've not read through the whole thread.

My new bike comes with a tiny little thing that barely meets the description of a bell, it just goes 'ting' if I flick the lever hard enough. However, I've used it a few times just when coming up behind people on shared cycleways/paths and I think every time, they've looked around, noticed me and moved out of the way. I do make a point of slowing right down as I pass.

I'd love an old style bell with a proper brrrrriiiiiiiinnnggg sound though but I do wonder if that would be considered aggressive.


Lion Bell Works bell! I have one, and it's great. Mine is brass, and now looks quite vintage. It really has a nice bell sound. People hear it more than other bells I've used, it seems.

You can hear the sound on their website: http://www.lionbellworks.co.uk

Note: I have no connection with Lion Bell Works other than being a satisfied customer.


I'm a double satisfied customer. The 'bring' is in 'E' I've been told. They have a really long sustain, which often gets positive 'Aaaaahhhhs!' as I go past.

I also do like to sound of the mahoosive Dutch bells. There must be a clip on YouTube.

Failing that (not being a Strava geek) I yell, 'Ordnance Survey Maaaaaaap!'

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Feek
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Feek » 7 Sep 2016, 7:49am

I played the Lionworks bell to Mrs. Feek and she liked it. On the strength of that, I've just ordered one.

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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby pwa » 7 Sep 2016, 11:16am

Feek wrote:I played the Lionworks bell to Mrs. Feek and she liked it. On the strength of that, I've just ordered one.


Nice bell. I have mine with the striker resting just 2mm from the dome, with the result that when I go over a cattle grid the judder makes the bell sound. I thought of altering the distance between dome and striker (easy) but decided I liked it the way it is. You can move the striker around if you want it on the other side.

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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Annoying Twit » 7 Sep 2016, 12:45pm

pwa wrote:
Feek wrote:I played the Lionworks bell to Mrs. Feek and she liked it. On the strength of that, I've just ordered one.


Nice bell. I have mine with the striker resting just 2mm from the dome, with the result that when I go over a cattle grid the judder makes the bell sound. I thought of altering the distance between dome and striker (easy) but decided I liked it the way it is. You can move the striker around if you want it on the other side.


I bent my striker so that it doesn't ring automatically. I go past too many people on paths etc. to have an automatic ringing bell.

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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Mark1978 » 7 Sep 2016, 1:43pm

IME it isn't that a lot of people don't hear you, or even ignore you, they just choose not to react. So you can't tell if they've heard you and are going to continue on their line or they haven't heard you and are going to be startled as you go by. But anyone who is walking on the path leaving plenty of space for overtaking is well within their rights to ignore everyone!

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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Giles Pargiter » 9 Sep 2016, 12:40am

In fact their is no need for a great long debate about this as the situation is perfectly clear.

A highway is anywere the public can go by right rather than privilege and the highway code applies to highways.

However pedestrians, as according to our christian heritage, are moving as god intended and may if they are aware of it follow the advice in the highway code if they choose, but are not obliged to. They also (at least theoretically) take precedence over all other traffic.

I think that especially on the clearly very often too narrow shared use paths one can sometimes expect traffic jams, just as on any other highway.

What I find far more troublesome and dangerous is other cyclists not obeying the highway code especially KEEP LEFT which is an obligation not a choice. Also I have had close encounters with cyclists disobeying this rule as well as disobeying the rule concerning showing lights from sundown till dawn when using them.

Personally I avoid such highways pretty much always because of this (and also other issues such as bollards as discussed elsewhere) unless they take me on a route that I particularly desire.

As a side note; as a person who has/does drive vehcles in off road or private property situations the health and safety demand is that the highway code should be followed at all times - so that we all know what we are doing.

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Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby rfryer » 9 Sep 2016, 7:44am

Giles Pargiter wrote:In fact their is no need for a great long debate about this as the situation is perfectly clear.

A highway is anywere the public can go by right rather than privilege and the highway code applies to highways.

Can you back up this assertion? I had a quick scan of my copy of the highway code, and found it explicit about cases when broadening it's scope away from the "road" (eg to include pavements alongside the road when discussing pedestrians), but couldn't find any mention of off-road facilities.



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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Mark1978 » 9 Sep 2016, 8:17am

With regard to the keep left thing - notwithstanding the "pedestrians can do what they like" argument. Should peds / runners stick to the left too? I've had significant issues with runners being on the right - with me approaching from the opposite direction on the left, rather different to meeting a group of walkers as they are running towards you at some speed. If they were running on the left I overtake on the right - no issue. But they are running towards me on my side, half the time they'll go to the other side of the path to get out of my way, half the time they're expecting me to do that, but then I do so and that's when they decide to move too!

I did have a brief discussion with a runner about this and they felt safer running on the right so cycle traffic from behind would pass on their left and they could then see oncoming traffic.

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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby pwa » 9 Sep 2016, 8:35am

This debate about the Highway Code and its role (if any) on shared use paths is interesting, but not useful to me when I use such paths. Over the Bank Holiday Weekend my wife and did a 50-odd mile ride that included the shared use track (mainly tarmac) that goes down the Afan Valley in South Wales. It must be about 15 miles, mostly following a disused railbed in a wooded valley. Lovely. But it varies in width, from as little as 1 metre to as much as 3 metres on the more popular sections. On a sunny weekend it is very popular, with families on foot, families on bikes, and dogs. Kids with stabilisers, grannies with zimmers. It is like a long, thin public park. The idea that anyone would instruct people there to behave as if on a road is comical. You just roll along slowly, anticipating that the next group of people on the track ahead may well close the gap you are aiming for. You ring your bell and if you are lucky they hear and respond. If you are unlucky the sound of the river or their own voices masks the sound of the bell and you have to slow right down and speak as you get close. All friendly. All relaxed. I do try to stay to the left when meeting oncoming cyclists, thus encouraging them to do the same. It's a useful habit to have, making life simpler for everyone. But I'm also ready to compromise on that if necessary.