Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

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Graham
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Graham » 20 Jul 2016, 9:02am

AaronR wrote:Sing. Like a nutter. Instantly you stop being a pesky cyclist who shouldn't be on their pavement to being something that should be given a wide berth

A loud rendition of the National Anthem should do it ! . . . .

How does it go ? "God save our gracious queen . . .long live our noble queen . . . le jour de marche est arrive . . . ".

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mjr
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby mjr » 20 Jul 2016, 10:28am

WillRod wrote:My question is... what do you do if they don't hear your bike bell?

If you're going to pass within falling-over distance, then slow to walking speed. If you can't pass, try "Excuse me, please" once you're close enough. If it's a frequent problem, perhaps it's time to push the council for a wider track and maybe a new footway alongside.

I think there's a period of refamiliarisation going on in places where cycling fell to tiny levels, but people will eventually remember what bike bells sound like: traditional brringers are more easily recognised (as well as allowing the operator more expressiveness), then temple bells (which I find easier to fit on road bike stems), then the cheap pingers (which seem to need at least a fast double-strike before most people react). In my experience, it does get better and most people share nicely, although you always might encounter someone just cut up by a lout who misdirects their anger.

Do I just have to put up with it or do I get a horn?

Surely a horn will have even more of the same problem because even fewer people will recognise it as meaning a bicycle? If you're really encountering more of the "I ain't looking for no stinking bike" crowd, it might confuse them enough so they look and make eye contact and then people tend to be friendlier because it usually deanonymises you.
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BakfietsUK
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby BakfietsUK » 20 Jul 2016, 11:02am

Ah yes, the lack of forward planning by the "providers" of cycling infrastructure causing risk to the more vulnerable in society.

Surely the problem here is the phenomenon of "shared use" being a policy solution to cycle infrastructure planning. Er, No, this is not a solution and these posts show why it is not. Pedestrians need to have a completely safe space too. Some people may look ok about being passed by bikes, but if you are at all unsteady on your feet, or have any special needs a cyclist at any speed can be hugely intimidating and scary.

Most people seem to think Denmark and Holland are the exemplars of cycling provision and use and I agree that they are vastly better than in the UK. However, in countries like Germany, Switzerland and Austria they are far, far ahead of us here. The most mediochre of provisions in Salzburg for example, compares to what appears to be the best the UK can offer.

No wonder we have all these problems and conflicts, their built into the system.

Lets have proper well designed cycle exclusive rights of way and not dangerously designed afterthoughts.

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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby mjr » 20 Jul 2016, 11:19am

BakfietsUK wrote:Lets have proper well designed cycle exclusive rights of way and not dangerously designed afterthoughts.

I think we've got a problem with even cyclists participating in the mismarketing of cycle tracks by calling them "shared use paths" but it's not quite as simple as that. People in other countries do walk on cycle tracks, too... the provision generally seems more realistic and not as afraid to redistribute space from wasteful motorists to more efficient modes of transport, but in busy contention-prone areas, walkers and cyclists seem more willing to give-and-take than we do here - is it another consequence of more people being both?
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flat tyre
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby flat tyre » 20 Jul 2016, 8:17pm

I cycle on shared use paths regularly. I don't asssume that as a cyclist I have priority and I don't use a bell. If I'm approaching behind walkers I slow down and make sure that they know I'm there by a "hello" or similar greeting, usually gets the desired response, to which I say "thank you".

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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby mjr » 20 Jul 2016, 8:26pm

I find that cycling up behind people and saying hello causes many to accuse me of sneaking up on them and some ask why I've not got a bell, even if I rang it and they didn't hear it. So even though we don't have priority, I think most people prefer a gentle bell to an unexpected hello. They are thanked if they let me pass, either way.
Last edited by mjr on 20 Jul 2016, 8:28pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ThePinkOne
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby ThePinkOne » 20 Jul 2016, 8:27pm

I ride on some shared use paths. The thing people seem to hear is the buzz of my Hope hub as I stop pedalling to slow a bit. I know the distinct sound of a Hope hub is a bit like Marmite- like or loathe- but it does seem to get attention the way my bell doesnt.

TPO

BakfietsUK
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby BakfietsUK » 20 Jul 2016, 8:59pm

I don't think shared use paths are being mis marketed, they are being completely mis sold as a solution to cycle infrastructure. Sure, some people will not respect possible delineations in dedicated routes, the point is to have a coherent and safe system which does not put the vulnerable at risk as a fundamental part of the design solution. You cant stop people crossing the road so why would you stop them crossing a cycle path. Even motorists have to make way for pedestrians on roads, so it does not seem unreasonable to make an allowance on a dedicated cycle lane.

I am not sold on shared use and I think they represent an intrinsic danger to people who are not readily discernible as needing extra care. If shared use is such a brilliant solution then why are cyclists not allowed on motorways. The answer I hope is obvious and how then, does one see shared use.

To me it's a way of getting cyclists off roads and out of the way of the important business of driving, much like allowing cyclists on pavements. Shift the conflict somewhere else and let the car drivers have the roads to themselves. Clearly, to me at least this is utter folly.

AlaninWales
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby AlaninWales » 21 Jul 2016, 9:07am

Cunobelin wrote:Ring bell............ No answer

"Loud Voice"........No answer

Even louder Voice ....No answer



The Air Zound is justified

Rev engine........... No reaction

Sound horn........No reaction

Even longer horn ....No reaction



The close pass is justified :?:

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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby mjr » 21 Jul 2016, 11:28am

Musical interlude.☺
It's your bicycle bell...
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reohn2
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby reohn2 » 21 Jul 2016, 3:49pm

^ :) one of the great singers of our time.
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Flinders
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Flinders » 21 Jul 2016, 6:17pm

Only yesterday I was reading a Daily Mail type thread on t' interweb where people were saying how rude it was for cyclists to use a bell.
Then when I do my 'cough and politely say excuse me' routine, I get told I should use a bell, and have to explain why I don't, i.e., some people think it's aggressive.
You can't win. :?

Flinders
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Flinders » 21 Jul 2016, 6:20pm

ThePinkOne wrote:I ride on some shared use paths. The thing people seem to hear is the buzz of my Hope hub as I stop pedalling to slow a bit. I know the distinct sound of a Hope hub is a bit like Marmite- like or loathe- but it does seem to get attention the way my bell doesnt.

TPO


I find that unclipping a foot is surprisingly effective (and as I unclip when passing anyway, in case of someone/somedog doing something silly, it's no hardship). It's not as noisy as many other sounds that don't get noticed, but because it is less common, people seem to notice it and look round to see what's happening.

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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby reohn2 » 21 Jul 2016, 6:21pm

Flinders wrote: ......You can't win. :?


No you certainly can't in a country where a cyclist is practically an outlaw as much as an outgroup :?
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Bmblbzzz » 21 Jul 2016, 8:25pm

Postboxer wrote:Is 'Like a Nutter' to the tune of 'Like a Virgin'?

You hardly even have to change the lyrics!

Like a nutter
Touched for the very first time
Like a nu-u-u-utter
When your brain beats
Next to mine

:D