Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

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bigjim
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby bigjim » 27 Jul 2016, 3:24pm

I often get the comment "you should have a bell". it's beyond me where they get this as the comment is often after I have said"excuse me" or "Morning" etc. Last Sunday I was off road riding down a gravel path on a Sustrans route with a companion. The gravel path has a muddy bridle path running parallel with it. In front of us were two horse riders blocking the gravel path. As we approached slowly we were chatting and the riders moved off onto the Bridle path. As we drew level one of them turned and said imperiously "you should use a bell". I said "why we have perfecly good voices and you heard our approach". We were then ignored for the peasants we obviously are. I didn't bother to point out they should have been on the bridle path in the first place.

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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Postboxer » 27 Jul 2016, 5:36pm

I reckon I see on average about 2 red light jumpers for every junction I encounter, counting the traffic from other directions and people encroaching past ASLs and creeping past the line and setting off before the green.

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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby mjr » 27 Jul 2016, 5:44pm

bigjim wrote:I often get the comment "you should have a bell". it's beyond me where they get this

http://highwaycode.info/rule/66 perhaps, or the Pedal Bicycles Safety Regs, or maybe just simply knowing that bells exist. I know there's no legal requirement to have one, but they only said "should".

The horse riders sound rude about it, though. Some horse riders prefer cyclists to say hello rather than ring. Why can we never win? ;-)
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Graham
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Graham » 27 Jul 2016, 6:42pm

bigjim wrote:I often get the comment "you should have a bell". it's beyond me where they get this as the comment . . .

I suggest that this sort of comment is a reflex reaction and has the underlying message "I don't like you cycling here" or even "I don't like cyclists."

I tend to steamroller such with profuse thanking for their consideration and joyous smiling ( to the miserable gits :mrgreen: ).

The situation is similar to plastic hats, where every cycling incident initiates a discussion about the profound benefits of these miraculous devices. Suddenly everyone becomes a plastic hat safety expert, whether anything above the shoulders contacts the ground or not.

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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Vorpal » 27 Jul 2016, 6:47pm

Bicycles are not required to have bells, but it's not legal to sell a new one without a bell. In addition, bells are an item of equipment included in the Convention on Road Traffic (article 44 p 39).
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Badger_Pete » 27 Jul 2016, 11:36pm

Vorpal wrote:Bicycles are not required to have bells, but it's not legal to sell a new one without a bell. In addition, bells are an item of equipment included in the Convention on Road Traffic (article 44 p 39).


I appreciate this is a UK based site and there is no requirement for a bell on a bicycle other than at point of sale in the UK

However as this is a site frequented by Touring cyclists that ride in other countries, I think it is worth I pointing that a lot of counties for example our neighbors; Netherlands even France do require a bell.

Indeed as you point out with the link to the 1968 Vienna Convention of Road Traffic, in Chapter V - Conditions For the Admission of Cycles and Mopeds to International Traffic – Article 44 says;

Cycles without an engine in international traffic shall:
(a) Have an efficient brake;
(b) Be equipped with a bell capable of being heard at a sufficient distance, and carry no other audible warning device;
(c) Be equipped with a red reflecting device at the rear and with devices such that the cycle can show a white or selective-yellow light to the front and a red light to the rear.

Across the other side of the Atlantic, some states for instance New Mexico that I am familiar with; require a “bell or other device capable of giving a signal audible for a distance of at least one hundred feet, except that a bicycle shall not be equipped with, nor shall any person use upon a bicycle any siren or whistle” …. But cross the state line into Texas you don’t require a bell …. Personally I just leave the bell fitted to my bike where ever I ride :)

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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby AlaninWales » 28 Jul 2016, 8:48am

Badger_Pete wrote:
Vorpal wrote:Bicycles are not required to have bells, but it's not legal to sell a new one without a bell. In addition, bells are an item of equipment included in the Convention on Road Traffic (article 44 p 39).


I appreciate this is a UK based site and there is no requirement for a bell on a bicycle other than at point of sale in the UK

However as this is a site frequented by Touring cyclists that ride in other countries, I think it is worth I pointing that a lot of counties for example our neighbors; Netherlands even France do require a bell.

Indeed as you point out with the link to the 1968 Vienna Convention of Road Traffic, in Chapter V - Conditions For the Admission of Cycles and Mopeds to International Traffic – Article 44 says;

Cycles without an engine in international traffic shall:
(a) Have an efficient brake;
(b) Be equipped with a bell capable of being heard at a sufficient distance, and carry no other audible warning device;
(c) Be equipped with a red reflecting device at the rear and with devices such that the cycle can show a white or selective-yellow light to the front and a red light to the rear.

Across the other side of the Atlantic, some states for instance New Mexico that I am familiar with; require a “bell or other device capable of giving a signal audible for a distance of at least one hundred feet, except that a bicycle shall not be equipped with, nor shall any person use upon a bicycle any siren or whistle” …. But cross the state line into Texas you don’t require a bell …. Personally I just leave the bell fitted to my bike where ever I ride :)

Wow! By international convention you are not even allowed to have a voice !

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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Vorpal » 28 Jul 2016, 8:50am

AlaninWales wrote:
Badger_Pete wrote:Indeed as you point out with the link to the 1968 Vienna Convention of Road Traffic, in Chapter V - Conditions For the Admission of Cycles and Mopeds to International Traffic – Article 44 says;

Cycles without an engine in international traffic shall:
(a) Have an efficient brake;
(b) Be equipped with a bell capable of being heard at a sufficient distance, and carry no other audible warning device;
(c) Be equipped with a red reflecting device at the rear and with devices such that the cycle can show a white or selective-yellow light to the front and a red light to the rear.

Across the other side of the Atlantic, some states for instance New Mexico that I am familiar with; require a “bell or other device capable of giving a signal audible for a distance of at least one hundred feet, except that a bicycle shall not be equipped with, nor shall any person use upon a bicycle any siren or whistle” …. But cross the state line into Texas you don’t require a bell …. Personally I just leave the bell fitted to my bike where ever I ride :)

Wow! By international convention you are not even allowed to have a voice !

:lol: :lol: :lol: Is that carried? I thought it was included ;)
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby [XAP]Bob » 28 Jul 2016, 9:27am

(b) Be equipped with a bell capable of being heard at a sufficient distance, and carry no other audible warning device;

Mute cyclists only - no clicking freewheels or squeaky brakes.
No tyre noise...

So we have to ride a fixie with an immaculately maintained transmission and no front brake? As well as really quiet tyres.
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby gaz » 28 Jul 2016, 9:55am

Badger_Pete wrote:... there is no requirement for a bell on a bicycle other than at point of sale in the UK

Northern Ireland is in the UK. In Northern Ireland a cycle is required to be fitted with a bell.
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby kylecycler » 28 Jul 2016, 11:56am

Old childhood knock knock joke...

Knock knock
Who's there?
Isobel
Isobel who?
Isobel necessary on a bike?

Sorry, it was bad then and it's just as bad now. :lol:

bigjim wrote:I often get the comment "you should have a bell". it's beyond me where they get this as the comment is often after I have said"excuse me" or "Morning" etc. Last Sunday I was off road riding down a gravel path on a Sustrans route with a companion. The gravel path has a muddy bridle path running parallel with it. In front of us were two horse riders blocking the gravel path. As we approached slowly we were chatting and the riders moved off onto the Bridle path. As we drew level one of them turned and said imperiously "you should use a bell". I said "why we have perfecly good voices and you heard our approach". We were then ignored for the peasants we obviously are. I didn't bother to point out they should have been on the bridle path in the first place.

I wrote about this elsewhere, but the only (and probably the last) time I pinged the bell at a horse, from behind and quite a long way off, it tried to bolt. My theory was that it might sound less threatening than anything else, but that clearly didn't work. The concensus of horse riders' advice certainly is to use your voice, right enough.

Incidentally, concerning squeaky brakes, the Tektro Novela mechanical discs on my Carrera Subway shrieked like a banshee, to the point that I was seriously concerned that they might easily spook a horse, and they had already spooked a fair few pedestrians. It was only on initial light application, so I figured it was the pad backing plates moving around against the pistons. I followed a tip from Brucey and smeared a very light coating of copaslip on the backing plates - even then I 'stippled' it with a paper towel so that the coating was as light as possible - and they've been perfectly silent, with no contamination of the pads or discs, since (touch wood). It's up to anyone else whether they try it or not, but it's worked for me so far.

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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby sapperadam » 28 Jul 2016, 11:56am

Vorpal wrote:Bicycles are not required to have bells, but it's not legal to sell a new one without a bell.


So this year I have bought two bikes (in the past two months) as well as a bike last year - all new - and none of them had a bell fitted. Why is that if it is illegal to sell a new one without a bell?

FWIW, I did buy a bell for one of the bikes, but that was only because No1. Son wanted one.

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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Vorpal » 28 Jul 2016, 12:11pm

sapperadam wrote:
Vorpal wrote:Bicycles are not required to have bells, but it's not legal to sell a new one without a bell.


So this year I have bought two bikes (in the past two months) as well as a bike last year - all new - and none of them had a bell fitted. Why is that if it is illegal to sell a new one without a bell?

FWIW, I did buy a bell for one of the bikes, but that was only because No1. Son wanted one.

They get away with that, the same way that they get away with selling them without pedal reflectors. They consider it 'partly assembled' rather than 'fully assembled'. In theory at least they should inform the purchaser that the bicycle is not fully assembled, or provide assembly instructions.
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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby Bmblbzzz » 28 Jul 2016, 4:34pm

gaz wrote:
Badger_Pete wrote:... there is no requirement for a bell on a bicycle other than at point of sale in the UK

Northern Ireland is in the UK. In Northern Ireland a cycle is required to be fitted with a bell.

What a curious exception! Why is that?

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Re: Shared use paths - Bells ringing ignored...

Postby mjr » 28 Jul 2016, 5:30pm

Bmblbzzz wrote:
gaz wrote:Northern Ireland is in the UK. In Northern Ireland a cycle is required to be fitted with a bell.

What a curious exception! Why is that?

Northern Ireland had its own parliament between 1921 and 1972, so most of the time while cycling (and motor traffic) was growing, so its traffic laws were similar yet different to the rest of the UK. Presumably they were never harmonised while NI was wholly governed from Westminster and whatever regulation requires bells has never been repealed (which is slightly surprising when Thatcher's government even repealed the bell-at-sale regulation in rUK). Anyone know what it is?
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