Jeremny Vine a road rage victim

[Flinders]

I think we also should be careful about saying that there was space to pull over. Those cameras have lenses that distort the view. If I was cycling at 20mph I would feel I needed a significant space to swing over into and then swing back, still not getting into the door zone of the cars before and after. And it there was traffic behind her car (which may not be visible) or she overtook slowly or hesitantly you could end up on a collision course with a vehicle behind- or even with her.

Pulling over completely I will certainly do- on a long country road where I know overtaking is not safe where I might hold a milk tanker up for several minutes. Not on a short town road where it's about a few seconds and I would catch them up at the next lights.

The argument about getting to a sick child is about the daftest I have ever heard. The cyclist could be doing the same for all the driver knew.

[Postboxer]

Not sure why Clarkson describes it as a narrow road, it's over 3 car widths wide!

[reohn2]

You are basing much of that post around a premise that there is actually something wrong or illegal about driving very close behind a cyclist beeping your horn.
This is very much a minority view, certainly not supported by the media, Police, CPS, magistrates, vast majority of the British driving public and a section of this forum too.

I don't know if that comment is aimed at me or not but,I do not condone this mad woman's driving,I think it's appalling,I think her attitude and whole demeanour stinks.
That said in such cases as a cyclist you assess the situation and decide what to do in response to it,fight(by holding your line) or facilitate(flight).
It generally goes against my personal grain to facilitate(flight)bullies.
However,add a perceived(on my part) hint of lunacy/instability and a threat to my safety,all things considered and after many such incidents,these days I'll swallow my pride and chose facilitate(flight) if it's the safer option.
My reasoning behind this stance is due to a complete and utter absence of law and order on the roads,due to a complete lack of meaningful traffic policing and the anonymity afforded by car drivers in such circumstances,unless as in this case the driver actually gets out of the car and a camera can record such events,or if there are others to witness such incidents and are prepared to step forward.
As I mentioned up thread I've reported three cars for similar incidents and the reg no didn't match the car.
For a bit of background,a story:-
I was climbing a short stiff climb on an urban road with double white lines,and a string of quite deep potholes to my left plus overhanging foliage,Rhododendrons IIRC and no footway so the bushes were overhanging the road,so I was almost in primary position.The hill crested some 30 to 40m in front and almost at the top there was a driveway entrance which I planned to pull into as I was aware of about five or six cars that had collected behind me.
I suddenly became aware of a car's nearside wing almost touching my right thigh,I instinctively slapped the top of it,kept my line and turned into driveway a further 5 to 10m away.
The car a high end two door silver Merc coupe,stopped and the driver a chap in his thirties with a white shirt and tie and grey slacks,got out came around the car the heading for me with both fists clenched,in a definite fighting posture.
I quickly dismounted and hit him with the bike,he retreated and I chased him around the car pinning him against a wall,he took a swing which didn't connect and I grabbed his throat.At that point an older chap who'd stopped intervened,and begged me to let go.I was reluctant but did.My attacker then claimed I'd assaulted him,at which I told him that if he didn't **** off I'd show him what a real assault would be like,he exited claiming to the now choked and blocked roadway how the nasty cyclist had assaulted him.
The car had a vanity plate which I noted was something like G5CEX* or similar(this happened some 5 or 6 years ago).I immediately phoned the police and reported it admitting to my hitting him and giving a full account,no one at the scene wished to be a witness.
I was informed that they had no such reg no on the system* and that they'd keep an eye open for it.And if the chap reported the incident I'd be hearing from them.
I took an incident number and made enquiries on a few occassions,nothing was done and no one was found.But I was offered trauma counselling ,I declined the offer.
When I thought about it much later it occurred to me that I didn't know who I was dealing with and was merely chance that someone with a false plate on the car wasn't carrying a weapon,or the police just didn't have the resources to follow up on it,or even that he was an off duty officer with friends in the right places.
I'll never know,but I do know how vulnerable I am on the bike and how anonymous he still is.
So I'll repeat TC's sig : 'Gang Warily' for you don't know who's out there or the state of mind due to any number of reasons.....


*I was also informed they'd tried various combinations and similar numbers and letters without luck.

[thirdcrank]

Fears over how police protect vulnerable people

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37272323

This is current on the BBC News www I post it merely to point to how the enforcement priorities are being realigned.

The Home Office is convinced that uniformed police patrols do not deter crime and only reassure the public. The people concerned have obviously never seen the traffic-calming effect of a patrol car on a motorway - perhaps they drive with their eyes shut.

And cyclists and pedestrians don't count as vulnerable people.

[reohn2]

Fears over how police protect vulnerable people

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37272323

This is current on the BBC News www I post it merely to point to how the enforcement priorities are being realigned.

Why am I not surprised?

The Home Office is convinced that uniformed police patrols do not deter crime and only reassure the public. The people concerned have obviously never seen the traffic-calming effect of a patrol car on a motorway - perhaps they drive with their eyes shut.

They wouldn't be on their own in that regard

And cyclists and pedestrians don't count as vulnerable people.

Ain't that the truth?

[MikeF]

JV had the opportunity to let the driver past and chose not to. I think he should.

Just so she could have had a little more time waiting at the junction! She had enough time to leave the car and confront JV so just what was the rush?

I'm not a London cyclist, but it seems in many places in central London and in towns local to me a bike is as quick or quicker than a car, so overtaking by a car is utter pointless. In fact in towns in which I cycle it's the motor vehicles holding me up. Perhaps I need an airhorn so I can overtake them and rant about them getting in my way?

[Bonefishblues]

JV had the opportunity to let the driver past and chose not to. I think he should.

Just so she could have had a little more time waiting at the junction! She had enough time to leave the car and confront JV so just what was the rush?

I'm not a London cyclist, but it seems in many places in central London and in towns local to me a bike is as quick or quicker than a car, so overtaking by a car is utter pointless. In fact in towns in which I cycle it's the motor vehicles holding me up. Perhaps I need an airhorn so I can overtake them and rant about them getting in my way?

It is pointless much of the time I completely accept, it's her decision to spend more time waiting, rather than JV's to make for her, that's the point.

To do otherwise leads to the (often fallacious I accept!) perception that an individual is being held up - as rather neatly illustrated by this whole sorry drama.

[Psamathe]

...
Lets not blame the victim here, especially from within our own community, please. Nothing Jeremy did justifies the rage, abuse and trauma he had to endure from this individual. One might as well say a victim of bullying had it coming because they appeared weak or were somehow asking for it because they were different. The blame, responsibility and fault goes totally with the individual who thinks it is acceptable to abuse and harm other people, whatever the circumstances.....

The negative comments re: Vine are not about his behaviour in the road (though clearly he had choices and several people here, myself included question the choices he made). The negative comment is more about his choice to make the video so public using it as an example of what cyclists suffer. It is not an extreme case and quite a few motorists will respond with "he chose to have a confrontation rather than get out of the way and let the car pass ..." - so it is not a good example to use to highlight the issue to motorists. There are far better examples regularly posted and Vine would have achieved far more by selecting one of them and putting his celebrity machine behind that rather than one where motorists do have valid "he chose ..." response.

Ian

[Bonefishblues]

...
Lets not blame the victim here, especially from within our own community, please. Nothing Jeremy did justifies the rage, abuse and trauma he had to endure from this individual. One might as well say a victim of bullying had it coming because they appeared weak or were somehow asking for it because they were different. The blame, responsibility and fault goes totally with the individual who thinks it is acceptable to abuse and harm other people, whatever the circumstances.....

The negative comments re: Vine are not about his behaviour in the road (though clearly he had choices and several people here, myself included question the choices he made). The negative comment is more about his choice to make the video so public using it as an example of what cyclists suffer. It is not an extreme case and quite a few motorists will respond with "he chose to have a confrontation rather than get out of the way and let the car pass ..." - so it is not a good example to use to highlight the issue to motorists. There are far better examples regularly posted and Vine would have achieved far more by selecting one of them and putting his celebrity machine behind that rather than one where motorists do have valid "he chose ..." response.

Ian

That's not a bad synopsis.

[meic]

If you accept the theory that somebody going slower in front of you where there is no place to overtake is a justification for intimidating them with your vehicle and then getting out and attacking them.
Me, I just settle back and wait for a safe opportunity.

[Bonefishblues]

We have a rich and varied range of viewpoints and opinions, yes

[thirdcrank]

I see there has been an arrest

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37277374

[Grandad]

That's for common assault - what about the lack of tax?

[meic]

what about the lack of tax?

Hardly an arrestable offence. About twenty years ago I was caught in a roadside stop checking for tax discs, all that had to be done was to pay the due tax and no prosecution followed.
I will point out that it wasnt my vehicle, my only failing was to not have checked that it was taxed before I drove it. I was suitably annoyed with my boss for sending me out in it.

[Grandad]

Not expecting an arrest, just wonder if there is a fine involved.