Incredible secure public bike parking in Czech

[reohn2]

I think only one of us is looking to ban people into using well-meaning junk that someone considers good.

No,you are wrong.

Go look up what some people trumpet as "good" cycle parking (streetpods ) and get back to me when you have done.

I don't need to look at bad to know what it is I've experienced bad for much longer than yourself.

Now if you'll stop nit picking you might realise that we both want the same thing.
Getting back to the issue of good cycle parking,if good ie;high standard parking were available there'd been no need to use street signs to park and if there were no need then it's perfectly reasonable not to expect people to use them,it then follows it should made it illegal.
As I posted up thread and I'll write it again in a different way,some want all the freedom without the responsibility.

I fully agree we don't have good/high standard cycle parking but the point still stands.

[mjr]

Now if you'll stop nit picking you might realise that we both want the same thing.
Getting back to the issue of good cycle parking,if good ie;high standard parking were available there'd been no need to use street signs to park and if there were no need then it's perfectly reasonable not to expect people to use them,it then follows it should made it illegal.

How about you stop trying to claim that we want the same thing when I want parking elsewhere to remain legal? After all, if the parking is genuinely good for everyone then no-one will be parking elsewhere and banning it is a waste of money preparing, passing and publishing orders and so on. However, if the parking isn't good enough, then banning parking elsewhere is actively harmful to cycling and so an even bigger waste of money. There's no scenario where making parking illegal is good for cycling.

As I posted up thread and I'll write it again in a different way,some want all the freedom without the responsibility.

That's bonkers and exactly the same trite misdirection used by people who want to ban cycling from the carriageway and force riders onto defective cycle tracks.

I fully agree we don't have good/high standard cycle parking but the point still stands.

As does mine. HTH.

[sapperadam]

Considering the issues around whether parking elsewhere should remain legal or not depending on whether good cycle parking is available and what actually good is, I thought I'd throw in my tuppence worth.

If good parking is available and I mean, parking that is suitable for ANY kind of cyclist, even then, parking should still remain legal elsewhere, why? For the simple fact that the parking might be full...

We seem to be so stuck on having good parking available that nobody is even mentioning there being enough good parking available.

[reohn2]

Sapperadam,MJR.
I'll try this one last time.
If cycle parking is good which=adequate in every detail(does that suffice?),then on street parking not at designated cycle parking areas,should be banned.
That's how I feel about the issue if your view varies we will have to agree to disagree,if want a parallel to draw on,on a much bigger and invasive scale think about indiscriminate car parking.

That's bonkers and exactly the same trite misdirection used by people who want to ban cycling from the carriageway and force riders onto defective cycle tracks.

No it isn't.

[stork]

I think that the presence or absence of 'good' (whatever that means) facilities specifically for cycle parking is a red herring here.

What should be, and to some extent already is, illegal is parking your vehicle (whether or not motorised) in such a way as to obstruct the highway or endanger other highway users. This should be the case regardless of whether there is 'good' parking, or indeed any parking, nearby.

For cycles, I don't accept that there should be any restrictions beyond this. For motor vehicles, however, I think that there should be, for a number of reasons. There are already some additional restrictions, including it being illegal to park any part of your vehicle in a cycle track, or where parking restrictions say you can't park, or in some places on the footway, and I'd also support a move to bringing footway parking law in line with cycle track parking law.

More generally, when considering legislating to ban something, there needs to be a consideration of the enforceability of the ban, and its other costs and disadvantages, set against what is likely to be gained by it. I also think that the last thing we need is the law moving further towards marginalising cyclists; the pendulum needs to be pushed, and pushed hard, in the other direction.

[reohn2]

......More generally, when considering legislating to ban something, there needs to be a consideration of the enforceability of the ban, and its other costs and disadvantages, set against what is likely to be gained by it.

That could be said for any law,one being highlighted continually on the forum is mobile phone use when driving,and whilst it's infinitely more dangerous than most illegal parking whether that be cycles or any other vehicle,if it can't be enforced effectively then it may as well be made legal according to your thinking.
I'm sure many mobile phone users would claim their daily business runs much better if they are allowed to use the moblile whilst driving,not that I agree with it but you see my point.

I also think that the last thing we need is the law moving further towards marginalising cyclists; the pendulum needs to be pushed, and pushed hard, in the other direction.

IMHO,nothing would marginalise cycling more than people having bikes chained up to their front railings,etc,or people tripping over a bike pedal on a narrow footway,etc,if there's appropriate cycle parking nearby.
The good cycle parking being discussed here is the Czech tower which for possibly 95+% of cyclists I would suggest be classed as good to first rate.
For the remaining 5% or less a similar extension to the tower or attched 'lockers' or similar could be provided.Other sort term 2 hours or less facilities could be provided.
I admit that such facilities need to be provided by a forward thinking LA's,etc truly interested in promoting cycling and not the present lip service promotion such as most offer ATM it would also need such LA's to truly listen to local cycling groups.
I'm under no illusions as to the diabolical way cyclists are treated by most LA's,or the way a blind eye is turned to so much vehicle crime,but the point still stands,in principle at least.

[stork]

That could be said for any law,one being highlighted continually on the forum is mobile phone use when driving,and whilst it's infinitely more dangerous than most illegal parking whether that be cycles or any other vehicle,if it can't be enforced effectively then it may as well be made legal according to your thinking.
I'm sure many mobile phone users would claim their daily business runs much better if they are allowed to use the moblile whilst driving,not that I agree with it but you see my point.

Mobile phone use when is a good example here, because the UK government's failure to ban it is, as I understand it, directly linked to their perception that such a law would be unenforceable. I don't know whether it has in fact proven unenforceable in those jurisdictions where there is a ban.

The ban on the use of hand-held mobiles certainly can be enforced effectively, although whether it is or not is a different question (whose answer is pretty obvious).

IMHO,nothing would marginalise cycling more than people having bikes chained up to their front railings,etc,or people tripping over a bike pedal on a narrow footway,etc,if there's appropriate cycle parking nearby.

That in itself doesn't marginalise cycling, although it may influence those who have the power to make conditions better or worse for cycling. But anti-social parking can be, and already is to some degree, banned, without a blanket ban on parking anywhere other than a designated facility.

[reohn2]

Mobile phone use when is a good example here, because the UK government's failure to ban it is, as I understand it, directly linked to their perception that such a law would be unenforceable. I don't know whether it has in fact proven unenforceable in those jurisdictions where there is a ban.

You'll forgive my ignorance but I thought hand held mobile use whilst driving was against the law.

The ban on the use of hand-held mobiles certainly can be enforced effectively, although whether it is or not is a different question (whose answer is pretty obvious).

That's beside the point,because the government doesn't provide the funding or that police forces don't pursue criminals doesn't make it legal

That in itself doesn't marginalise cycling, although it may influence those who have the power to make conditions better or worse for cycling. But anti-social parking can be, and already is to some degree, banned, without a blanket ban on parking anywhere other than a designated facility.

You perhaps need to read my previous posts on cycle parking where good ie; Czech towers or similar are available,and whilst I agree bad or illegal parking in and of itself does marginalise cycling it's one thing among many,most of which are merely prejudice by a car centric society.

Why do I think this thread goes around in circles because some don't want to see the pluses of off street secure cycle parking in favour,it seems,of their want to park wherever it pleases them?

[DaveP]

I'd be delighted to discover something like that next time I go to the Station. But if part of the price is that I can no longer park on the street (and I personally do make an effort to minimise inconvenience) when I go into town then I'll probably drive. I expect some convenience in exchange for utility cycling, and a lamp post, or even better a thoughtfully sited Sheffield stand near my destination would qualify. Trudging across town to and from a bike park wouldn't. Neither would having to go home because some d*** robot wouldn't accept my last coin

I agree that carelessly parked bikes can be a nuisance, but banning is only one solution, and one which many of us will find inconvenient. Making some half decent provision somewhere relevant to folks needs would probably be nearly as effective and would have the additional benefit of being a step in the right direction.
It looks as though when I retire I'll have a simple choice between a pair of shoes and a bike, so lets get this one right - you know how expensive shoe leather can be

[reohn2]

I'd be delighted to discover something like that next time I go to the Station. But if part of the price is that I can no longer park on the street (and I personally do make an effort to minimise inconvenience) when I go into town then I'll probably drive. I expect some convenience in exchange for utility cycling, and a lamp post, or even better a thoughtfully sited Sheffield stand near my destination would qualify.

I agree,today as it happens we were sitting at bench in Ambleside there was a bike parked chained up to some railings with the rear wheel over hanging some steps.4m away were three empty Sheffield stands

Trudging across town to and from a bike park wouldn't.

Again I agree,but if I needed to leave my bike for a good few hours whilst I went shopping or to work,I'd be glad of a Czech tower within say 300 or 400m rather than a stack of Sheffield stands.

Neither would having to go home because some d*** robot wouldn't accept my last coin

Ah! sounds like a case for having a few coins in reserve for such occurrences.
Be Prepared as the Boy Scouts say

I agree that carelessly parked bikes can be a nuisance, but banning is only one solution, and one which many of us will find inconvenient. Making some half decent provision somewhere relevant to folks needs would probably be nearly as effective and would have the additional benefit of being a step in the right direction.

But banning cycle parking would only be because there is ample and secure parking within reasonable distance and short term Sheffield stands or better would be provided for short term parking as I made a point of up thread.
Here's the relevant bit of my first post on this thread:-

Three or four of those towers,or possibly more smaller ones,strategically placed in a city centres such as Manchester would work wonders IMO.In London I can see no reason why they shouldn't be dotted all over the city with bikes chained up to railings etc,outlawed for all but short term parking of say up to 2 hours.

This is all hypothetical,as everything on this thread is other than the reality of the Prerov tower.
If the tower idea was taken up in the UK it would be a real step forward cycling infrastructure and if implemented I said other parking would minimal IMHO.

It looks as though when I retire I'll have a simple choice between a pair of shoes and a bike, so lets get this one right - you know how expensive shoe leather can be

I'd like to see it done right too,but the problem is this is the UK

[DaveP]

[I'd like to see it done right too,but the problem is this is the UK

Point taken
But I'm curious now. It's surprising to find contributors to this forum advocating increased restrictions on cycle use. Are you playing Devil's Advocate here, (generally a useful thing IMO), or has inconsiderate cycle chaining become a bit of an issue "down your way"?
Sorry, "up your way"

[reohn2]

But I'm curious now. It's surprising to find contributors to this forum advocating increased restrictions on cycle use. Are you playing Devil's Advocate here, (generally a useful thing IMO), or has inconsiderate cycle chaining become a bit of an issue "down your way"?
Sorry, "up your way"

Inconsiderate cycle parking isn't a particular problem where I live,but I do think if there's good Czech tower or similarly quality cycle parking on offer cheaply enough(50p?) for people to use daily,there's no excuse not to use it,as it would be secure and under cover.
And if there's enough short term parking such as Sheffield stands or better,there's no need or excuse to park indiscriminately.
It's a citizen's responsibility to be thoughtful and considerate toward others so there'd need to be a law against such parking if it were a problem.

I see indiscriminate parking by car drivers on a daily basis locally,and I don't see a thing being done about it,if cycling were to become as popular as motoring there'd be bikes chained to every available upright object.If those cyclists had the same mentality,and I've no reason to believe a significant number wouldn't then it'd be bedlam.
As I posted before this is the UK .

[DaveP]

there'd be bikes chained to every available upright object

I've seen some pretty impressive photos of cycle parking from Oxford or Cambridge...

[reohn2]

there'd be bikes chained to every available upright object

I've seen some pretty impressive photos of cycle parking from Oxford or Cambridge...

In the positive or negative impression?