Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

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irc
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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Post by irc »

reohn2 wrote:
Vorpal wrote:I hope the family don't read this. I think it's sad that someone can read about a tragic accident like this and make Darwin comments.

She wasn't stupid. She wasn't even doing anything wrong. She *may* have made a mistake, or hit a pothole or a rough bit of road when she had only one hand on the handlebars. We don't even know what actually happened; we only have the limited details reported by her family.

Her family have tragically lost a daughter, mother, wife, and people have also lost a friend. How would you feel if it was someone close to you?


RIP Carmen Greenway.


+1
There's enough crass and hurtful comments on this tragedy for moderators to remove them or event the whole thread IMHO.


I disagree. The family turned a private tragedy into a subject of discussion by choosing to use it to campaign for a helmet law.


No helmet campaign then speculation and criticism of the deceased is in bad taste and inconsiderate. Use a death to try and bring in a law that would adversely affect me - then within reason it's all fair comment.

As for whether her actions contributed to the crash. Her husband said

He said: "[Carmen] had been taking some selfies on the main road, she did that regularly and was media savvy. She was not taking it at the moment of the accident.

"She was 100 metres from our house, one hand on the bars, quite relaxed, and probably had had a drink.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 45691.html

So it wasn't a one off. She regularly cycled one handed taking pics. On this occasion she had probably been drinking. Stacking up the risk further. The more frequently you take small risks the more chance it goes wrong. Doing it while riding at night when bad road surfaces are harder to see. Another increase in the risk.

I can see plenty things to try before going for a helmet law. A crash that doesn't happen is injury free. riders with helmets sometimes still have fatal head injuries in rider only accidents.
Bonefishblues
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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Post by Bonefishblues »

Is the widower "campaigning for a change in helmet law" or when asked did he perhaps make comment?
Pete Owens
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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Post by Pete Owens »

I suspect it is far more likely that a helmet campaign has latched on to this and exploited the families grief (potentially pushing the guilt button), that the widower launched a campaign.

The way simultanous and nearly identical stories appeared in all the national media (and some foriegn papers as well) suggests an expertly construceted press release and media savy operation behind this.
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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Post by reohn2 »

IRC
My comments are more about the use of the term 'Darwinism' and crass comments by some attached to that attitude,though TBH does it serve cycling any by giving the pro helmet 'campaign' by the family more publication than it already has,that said I can understand their anguish however misplaced their sentiment.
That's assuming the family is leading this campaign,if others are using this tragedy as a vehicle for yet another misplaced pro helmet campaign,then perhaps those people/organisation need exposing for what they're doing inn someone else's name.
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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Audax67 wrote:Ditto car accidents: peak risk is generally within the first five miles of the commute. As you say, relaxation.

<philosophy>
BTW, it's quite common to find you have driven/ridden for miles and have no memory of it. People are usually aghast at the thought, but in reality your subconscious has been doing the driving while you weren't watching. Since this phenomenon is so common it's plain that the subconscious is a pretty good driver, and all the conscious brain does is go along for the ride. And since there's a delay between the subconscious doing something and the conscious noticing it, the implication is that all your conscious brain ever does is go along for the ride. Leading to the question, where did free will go?
</philosophy>


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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Post by pwa »

My comments about this when it first happened were criticised for my belief that the victim had probably been cycling with the phone in her hand, and that the accident was probably a result of that combined with her attention being elsewhere. I've made a similar mistake in the past but managed to stay upright, and the account of the incident seemed to fit. If I'm right (I accept there is an "if") perhaps we should be seeing a campaign for keeping your attention of the cycling when you are cycling, and saving the multitasking for other occasions.
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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Post by kwackers »

eileithyia wrote: Accident happened as he got to work, took his eye off the ball and caught the kerb......

I've seen that happen twice now.
Once when I was walking along and a guy came past in the gutter. 50 yards further up he was off.
The second time was a couple of weeks ago, I was behind a guy and I remember thinking "you really shouldn't be that close to the - oops!" (I almost felt I'd jinxed him by thinking that).
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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Post by Bonefishblues »

I regularly see horse riders on the phone around our village. I'm assuming that wouldn't be an offence?
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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Bonefishblues wrote:I regularly see horse riders on the phone around our village. I'm assuming that wouldn't be an offence?


It should be
But is a horse a vehicle or a person?
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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Post by pwa »

kwackers wrote:
eileithyia wrote: Accident happened as he got to work, took his eye off the ball and caught the kerb......

I've seen that happen twice now.
Once when I was walking along and a guy came past in the gutter. 50 yards further up he was off.
The second time was a couple of weeks ago, I was behind a guy and I remember thinking "you really shouldn't be that close to the - oops!" (I almost felt I'd jinxed him by thinking that).

Thankfully both guys were wearing helmets... ;)


I was cycling to work one morning, too early for there to be much traffic, and as I approached a big roundabout (going straight on) I was slowing as the lights were on red. An MTB rider passed me on the right then mounted the pavement to bypass the red light and go round on the pavement / pedestrian crossing. But the lights changed and I was able to go straight away, without even putting a foot down, so in seconds I was back ahead of him. I thought that was it. But about four hundred metres down the road he caught me again, passed on the right, then immediately tried to mount the pavement just in front of me. Why? God knows. But he committed the sin of getting the angle wrong. He mounted the pavement, but his bike didn't. I don't think his head hit the pavement first, but he did bang his head on the paving slabs.

I resisted the strong urge to cycle past with a grin on my face, and I stopped to help. He was conscious but confused, with a trickle of blood down his forehead. I got him talking to see if he could, but he was grumpy rather than friendly. So after a few words of advice regarding head injuries I left him. By that point he was standing and picking his bike up.

A colleague of mine once turned up to work with a bloodied head after a failed attempt to mount the pavement on his bike.

If you wanted to you could use both these incidents to help make a case for helmets, but you could also use them to make a case for better bike handling. Neither of these accidents would have happened to me because I don't attempt that particular circus trick.
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Cunobelin
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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Post by Cunobelin »

pwa wrote:
If you wanted to you could use both these incidents to help make a case for helmets, but you could also use them to make a case for better bike handling. Neither of these accidents would have happened to me because I don't attempt that particular circus trick.


Or a conclusive argument for a tadpole recumbent trike
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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Post by pwa »

Cunobelin wrote:
pwa wrote:
If you wanted to you could use both these incidents to help make a case for helmets, but you could also use them to make a case for better bike handling. Neither of these accidents would have happened to me because I don't attempt that particular circus trick.


Or a conclusive argument for a tadpole recumbent trike


A bit like wearing a whole body helmet?
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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Post by Vorpal »

You know what? When I see people riding no-hands, or talking on the phone whilst cycling, I am glad that they feel safe enough to do so.

I hardly talk on the phone whilst walking. I know I get distracted, so I usually stop to talk. Same goes with cycling.

Accidents can happen, but it could just as easily be the result of tripping over the raised corner of a paving slab, or a slip on ice, as a fall from a bike.

Will you blame someone who whilst walking, stumbles and hits their head? Shall we be required to take every possible preventive measure in order to not be blamed?

Where do we draw the line between something that is worthy of blame and something that is just a tragic accident?
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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Post by meic »

Where do we draw the line between something that is worthy of blame and something that is just a tragic accident?

That line has moved considerably in my short lifetime. Normal lifestyle has been changed enormously because of that line moving. It seems now when somebody dies, somebody else starts looking for somebody to charge with manslaughter or to say the victim themselves caused it in the way the other person may have been blamed.
Nowadays we are expected to show a much higher standard of safety concern, which is either enhancing our well being or stifling the life out of us, depending on how you look at it.
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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Post by pwa »

Vorpal wrote:You know what? When I see people riding no-hands, or talking on the phone whilst cycling, I am glad that they feel safe enough to do so.

I hardly talk on the phone whilst walking. I know I get distracted, so I usually stop to talk. Same goes with cycling.

Accidents can happen, but it could just as easily be the result of tripping over the raised corner of a paving slab, or a slip on ice, as a fall from a bike.

Will you blame someone who whilst walking, stumbles and hits their head? Shall we be required to take every possible preventive measure in order to not be blamed?

Where do we draw the line between something that is worthy of blame and something that is just a tragic accident?


I know what you mean. But if I did something a bit risky like holding a phone in one hand whilst cycling and had a fall because of it I would say it was my mistake, rather than looking for someone or something else to blame. I'd say I took a bit of a chance and was unlucky.
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