Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

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mjr
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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Postby mjr » 11 Nov 2017, 9:05pm

I'm still not accepting that cycling one-handed is risky. It's part of normal cycling, recommended every time you signal. If I fall while riding one- handed, I was probably going to fall if I'd both hands on the bars. It's not as if it's cycling no-handed!
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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Postby pwa » 11 Nov 2017, 9:29pm

mjr wrote:I'm still not accepting that cycling one-handed is risky. It's part of normal cycling, recommended every time you signal. If I fall while riding one- handed, I was probably going to fall if I'd both hands on the bars. It's not as if it's cycling no-handed!


Well we all take one hand off for short periods, to signal, change hand position or whatever. But if you have something in your hand that you cannot readily put down quickly you are forced to remain single handed when you come to a situation that is best managed with two hands. Someone who cycles one handed all the time, because they only have one hand, would learn to do that well, but most of us would utter an expletive as we tried to keep control. I've done it myself, so I'm not looking at this as a know-it-all Mr Perfect. I'm talking as someone who was once daft enough to take a photo whilst cycling and nearly crashed as a result. I hit a bump in the road, wobbled and only just avoided the edge of the tarmac as I regained control using my left hand only.

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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Postby irc » 11 Nov 2017, 9:49pm

mjr wrote:I'm still not accepting that cycling one-handed is risky. It's part of normal cycling, recommended every time you signal. If I fall while riding one- handed, I was probably going to fall if I'd both hands on the bars. It's not as if it's cycling no-handed!


IMO it's one handed while being focused on a camera screen and not the road that is risky.

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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Postby meic » 11 Nov 2017, 11:14pm

I am another of those cyclists who has much more control two handed than one handed.
I am pretty sure there are many hazards (kerbs, potholes, diesel, punctures,whitelines, tramlines) that would bring me off if I only had one hand on, compared to staying up with two.
Whenever something "happens" with one hand off the bars, it comes back as quickly as possible.
Yma o Hyd

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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Postby GarethF » 12 Nov 2017, 10:13am

I've got a slightly rattly front mudguard. This seems to harmonise when one hand is taken off the bars. The second hand appears to have a damping effect when it is replaced on the bar and silent running is restored.

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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Postby mjr » 13 Nov 2017, 11:13am

pwa wrote:
mjr wrote:I'm still not accepting that cycling one-handed is risky. It's part of normal cycling, recommended every time you signal. If I fall while riding one- handed, I was probably going to fall if I'd both hands on the bars. It's not as if it's cycling no-handed!


Well we all take one hand off for short periods, to signal, change hand position or whatever. But if you have something in your hand that you cannot readily put down quickly you are forced to remain single handed when you come to a situation that is best managed with two hands.

"Cannot readily put down"? Do some phones stick to your hand or something? I've put my phone down far more readily than I would like, although mostly when walking! :lol: I don't think many would hesitate to drop it if they felt it was needed, but I often ride along lazily with one hand steering - I suspect people who can't control the bike one-handed are putting too much weight on the bars due to a bad position. It's the same problem that leaves some people too scared to take a hand off to signal and it should be remedied for all sorts of more important reasons.

irc wrote:IMO it's one handed while being focused on a camera screen and not the road that is risky.

Agreed but there's no evidence that she was focused on a camera screen - many (most?) phones are set up to take pictures very quickly with no faffing, so you can take it before the moment's gone. On mine and at least one other, it's swipe up the screen and then press the side button (usually volume, but it doubles up) to take a pic, then press the other side button to shut the screen off again. I think at least my last phone was similar. You don't have to unlock the phone fully to take a picture. I can (and often do) do it without looking at the screen, just relying on the fake shutter sound to know it's been taken - of course, some of the pics are junk but it's not like they're using up film.

Garmins and other bar-mounted bike computers with their "look at me look at me" displays, even map holders are much more of a distraction than taking a selfie.
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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Postby thirdcrank » 13 Nov 2017, 11:23am

I think the short point about having stuff in your hand is that if it's something like a bit of food or a drink it can be discarded if needs must. The instinct is to preserve anything more precious, especially if it's fragile.

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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Postby Flinders » 13 Nov 2017, 12:39pm

thirdcrank wrote:I think the short point about having stuff in your hand is that if it's something like a bit of food or a drink it can be discarded if needs must. The instinct is to preserve anything more precious, especially if it's fragile.


That's absolutely it.
I was a theatre technician. That's a surprisingly dangerous job, you get falls from height (fly towers are about 60' high), things falling on you from height, all sorts.

You get told- when someone shouts a warning (usually 'HEADS!') of a falling object, don't hesitate even for a millisecond- RUN!

When I was inexperienced, I was hit on the head by a falling pillar. I was holding something up at the time, and because of my inexperience, I hesitated for a fraction of a second before getting the heck out of there, which was why it hit me (and yes, you do see stars, and no, you don't ask people 'are you alright?' when they have just been hit on the head by a falling pillar :evil: ).
You have to keep your wits about you and train yourself to obey all calls immediately without pause if you want to stay alive in dangerous situations - and believe me, if you are holding anything, however trivial, it is well known that it is very, very difficult not to take longer to respond; the overwhelming instinct from infancy up is to grip in a crisis (basically because we used to live in trees).

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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Postby brynpoeth » 13 Nov 2017, 12:50pm

Flinders wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:I think the short point about having stuff in your hand is that if it's something like a bit of food or a drink it can be discarded if needs must. The instinct is to preserve anything more precious, especially if it's fragile.


That's absolutely it.
I was a theatre technician. That's a surprisingly dangerous job, you get falls from height (fly towers are about 60' high), things falling on you from height, all sorts.

You get told- when someone shouts a warning (usually 'HEADS!') of a falling object, don't hesitate even for a millisecond- RUN!

When I was inexperienced, I was hit on the head by a falling pillar. I was holding something up at the time, and because of my inexperience, I hesitated for a fraction of a second before getting the heck out of there, which was why it hit me (and yes, you do see stars, and no, you don't ask people 'are you alright?' when they have just been hit on the head by a falling pillar :evil: ).
You have to keep your wits about you and train yourself to obey all calls immediately without pause if you want to stay alive in dangerous situations - and believe me, if you are holding anything, however trivial, it is well known that it is very, very difficult not to take longer to respond; the overwhelming instinct from infancy up is to grip in a crisis (basically because we used to live in trees).


Just been reading the thread about computer equipment, understood nothing %/)
But I understand that we used to live in trees, +1
But can one *decide* in a split second? I know I can think very quickly and support myself if I trip on the stairs..
If we have *recently* come down from the trees, why are our brains so elaborate?
Cycling - of course, but it is far better on a Gillott..alternative facts welcome

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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Postby irc » 13 Nov 2017, 12:52pm

mjr wrote:
irc wrote:IMO it's one handed while being focused on a camera screen and not the road that is risky.

Agreed but there's no evidence that she was focused on a camera screen - many (most?) phones are set up to take pictures very quickly with no faffing, so you can take it before the moment's gone.


She was getting the camera to point at people behind her while also framing her face. How is that possible without the eyes being focused on the screen? Maybe not for long, maybet 999 times out of a thousand she would have been fine. It onl has to be long enough to hit a pothole that otherwise would have been seenm and lose control when that may not have happened with both hands on the bars.

Photos can be taken quickly but it doesn't take long to hit a pothole.

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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Postby Vorpal » 13 Nov 2017, 1:00pm

irc wrote:
She was getting the camera to point at people behind her while also framing her face. How is that possible without the eyes being focused on the screen? Maybe not for long, maybet 999 times out of a thousand she would have been fine. It onl has to be long enough to hit a pothole that otherwise would have been seenm and lose control when that may not have happened with both hands on the bars.

Photos can be taken quickly but it doesn't take long to hit a pothole.

But she wasn't taking a selfie when the accident occurred. This was covered not long after the accident in the early pages of this thread.

The *media* said the bit about 'moments after taking a selfie' Her husband said
“She was not taking it at the moment of the accident. She was 100 metres from our house, one hand on the bars, quite relaxed, and probably had had a drink.


And that is pretty much all we know about it.
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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Postby mjr » 13 Nov 2017, 1:02pm

irc wrote:
mjr wrote:
irc wrote:IMO it's one handed while being focused on a camera screen and not the road that is risky.

Agreed but there's no evidence that she was focused on a camera screen - many (most?) phones are set up to take pictures very quickly with no faffing, so you can take it before the moment's gone.


She was getting the camera to point at people behind her while also framing her face. How is that possible without the eyes being focused on the screen?

Easily. I think I've posted some selfies before. I don't even have a camera on the screen side on my current phone. Some don't work but this isn't fine art anyway.
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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Postby thirdcrank » 13 Nov 2017, 1:13pm

Flinders wrote: ... That's absolutely it. ...


Having appeared to agree with me, this seems to say the opposite:

... if you are holding anything, however trivial, it is well known that it is very, very difficult not to take longer to respond; the overwhelming instinct from infancy up is to grip in a crisis (basically because we used to live in trees).


It's caused me to reflect and I suppose I'm talking about situations where there's a moment to think - however briefly - before reacting. Perhaps my use of the word "instinct" was wrong as I wasn't talking about a reflex action. I meant that I wouldn't want to drop something precious to enable me to regain full control, so I wouldn't hold something like a phone in the first place. A bit of food or drink is of a different order.

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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Postby kwackers » 13 Nov 2017, 1:51pm

IME it's often better to ride with no hands rather than one.
Neither is as good as both though.

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Re: Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Postby irc » 13 Nov 2017, 2:37pm

Vorpal wrote:The *media* said the bit about 'moments after taking a selfie' Her husband said
“She was not taking it at the moment of the accident. She was 100 metres from our house, one hand on the bars, quite relaxed, and probably had had a drink.


And that is pretty much all we know about it.


Fair enough.