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Re: Who are the best/worst drivers on the road?

Posted: 12 Apr 2019, 10:59pm
by pwa
The utility cyclist wrote:Drivers who use oversized cars such that they apparently can't see out of them and cyclists appear from nowhere :twisted: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-47886682

I'm not sure the style of vehicle is relevant. I used to drive 4x4 pick-ups at work and as far as I can remember they had windscreens I could see out of. The real question is why she wasn't seeing. Was she half asleep? Was she distracted by something? The defect was the driver not the vehicle.

The ban is too short.

Re: Who are the best/worst drivers on the road?

Posted: 12 Apr 2019, 11:57pm
by The utility cyclist
pwa wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:Drivers who use oversized cars such that they apparently can't see out of them and cyclists appear from nowhere :twisted: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-47886682

I'm not sure the style of vehicle is relevant. I used to drive 4x4 pick-ups at work and as far as I can remember they had windscreens I could see out of. The real question is why she wasn't seeing. Was she half asleep? Was she distracted by something? The defect was the driver not the vehicle.

The ban is too short.

I know that but these larger vehicles are AFAICT are involved in more incidents than smaller vehicles, for older folk it's a horrible combination IMHO, the vast majority were brought up with small cars, learnt in small cars, the view of things lower down is restricted and that's on top of the shocking reactions/visual acuity of a significant portion of older drivers.

Re: Who are the best/worst drivers on the road?

Posted: 13 Apr 2019, 7:45am
by Lance Dopestrong
[quote]
I'm not sure the style of vehicle is relevant. I used to drive 4x4 pick-ups at work and as far as I can remember they had windscreens I could see out of. [/quote]

Aye, I had a couple before I reformed. Great visibility, combined with supertanker like emergency braking distances, relative dynamic instability, recirculating ball steering for off road use that gives the steering response of a rudder and tiller on the tarmac, the pedestrian impact characteristics of a low flying skip. If an emergency arises and even if you do see the danger, you then have to work extra hard to avoid it.

And as for visibility....well, I'm well above average height, no problems. However, look closely at some of these properly large 4x4 vehicles and short drivers - mainly females, who as an average are 5 inches shorter than men, but it can be men too - are peeking over the dashboard and actually looking through the steering wheel. I'm not sure how that counts as good visibility.

I don't know how tall the driver was jn the news story, but a pound to a penny she wasn't especially long and was one of those that peer through the wheel instead of clearly looking over it. If that were the case I could blummen well believe she didn't see her victim until he was up on the bonnet. A drivers height should be printed on their licence, and each vehicle should have a minimum height stated on the V5.

Re: Who are the best/worst drivers on the road?

Posted: 13 Apr 2019, 8:09am
by Oldjohnw
Lance Dopestrong wrote:
I'm not sure the style of vehicle is relevant. I used to drive 4x4 pick-ups at work and as far as I can remember they had windscreens I could see out of.



And as for visibility....well, I'm well above average height, no problems. However, look closely at some of these properly large 4x4 vehicles and short drivers - mainly females, who as an average are 5 inches shorter than men, but it can be men too - are peeking over the dashboard and actually looking through the steering wheel. I'm not sure how that counts as good visibility.



See that often enough with Fiestas and Corsas.

Re: Who are the best/worst drivers on the road?

Posted: 13 Apr 2019, 8:17am
by Bonefishblues
The utility cyclist wrote:Drivers who use oversized cars such that they apparently can't see out of them and cyclists appear from nowhere :twisted: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-47886682

I've read it and can't see the vehicle model other than it was a Toyota. Is there another report?

Re: Who are the best/worst drivers on the road?

Posted: 13 Apr 2019, 11:36am
by The utility cyclist
Bonefishblues wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:Drivers who use oversized cars such that they apparently can't see out of them and cyclists appear from nowhere :twisted: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-47886682

I've read it and can't see the vehicle model other than it was a Toyota. Is there another report?

rav4
420px-Toyota_RAV4_Hybrid,_Paris_Motor_Show_2018,_IMG_0386.jpg

Re: Who are the best/worst drivers on the road?

Posted: 13 Apr 2019, 11:57am
by Bonefishblues
The utility cyclist wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:Drivers who use oversized cars such that they apparently can't see out of them and cyclists appear from nowhere :twisted: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-47886682

I've read it and can't see the vehicle model other than it was a Toyota. Is there another report?

rav4420px-Toyota_RAV4_Hybrid,_Paris_Motor_Show_2018,_IMG_0386.jpg

That's a 2019 model, by the by. 2016 Rav4's not exactly a big car when compared to a run-of-the-mill family car of 2016:

https://www.automobiledimension.com/mod ... /rav4-2016
https://www.automobiledimension.com/mod ... focus-2015

Might this be a fertile line of enquiry, that she had '...set off home to Lowestoft at about 04:00 BST'

Driver driving at a time she is normally asleep - do I recall that these early morning hours are peak for nodding off - somewhat corroborated by her being seen drifting towards the curb [sic]

I think this is one to blame the driver, not the vehicle, tbh.

Re: Who are the best/worst drivers on the road?

Posted: 13 Apr 2019, 12:24pm
by The utility cyclist
Bonefishblues wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:I've read it and can't see the vehicle model other than it was a Toyota. Is there another report?

rav4420px-Toyota_RAV4_Hybrid,_Paris_Motor_Show_2018,_IMG_0386.jpg

That's a 2019 model, by the by. 2016 Rav4's not exactly a big car when compared to a run-of-the-mill family car of 2016:

https://www.automobiledimension.com/mod ... /rav4-2016
https://www.automobiledimension.com/mod ... focus-2015

Might this be a fertile line of enquiry, that she had '...set off home to Lowestoft at about 04:00 BST'

Driver driving at a time she is normally asleep - do I recall that these early morning hours are peak for nodding off - somewhat corroborated by her being seen drifting towards the curb [sic]

I think this is one to blame the driver, not the vehicle, tbh.


I wasn't blaming the vehicle at any point nor giving excuses, the driver drove dangerously but as per, the CPS manages to underplay things and the judge gives the usual slap on the wrist and the disgusting 'momentary lapse' bullpoop.

Re: Who are the best/worst drivers on the road?

Posted: 13 Apr 2019, 1:00pm
by Bonefishblues
The utility cyclist wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:rav4420px-Toyota_RAV4_Hybrid,_Paris_Motor_Show_2018,_IMG_0386.jpg

That's a 2019 model, by the by. 2016 Rav4's not exactly a big car when compared to a run-of-the-mill family car of 2016:

https://www.automobiledimension.com/mod ... /rav4-2016
https://www.automobiledimension.com/mod ... focus-2015

Might this be a fertile line of enquiry, that she had '...set off home to Lowestoft at about 04:00 BST'

Driver driving at a time she is normally asleep - do I recall that these early morning hours are peak for nodding off - somewhat corroborated by her being seen drifting towards the curb [sic]

I think this is one to blame the driver, not the vehicle, tbh.


I wasn't blaming the vehicle at any point nor giving excuses, the driver drove dangerously but as per, the CPS manages to underplay things and the judge gives the usual slap on the wrist and the disgusting 'momentary lapse' bullpoop.

OK - it was the oversized vehicle that she couldn't see out of part of your post that led me to believe that was the point you were making.

Just for the avoidance of doubt, I think she had likely fallen into a micro sleep, based on what little the report tells us - for which she was wholly accountable.

Re: Who are the best/worst drivers on the road?

Posted: 13 Apr 2019, 4:29pm
by mattsccm
Commercial vehicle drivers of any sort. There appears to be the general attitude that as they drive for a living they are more important than other road users as well as being better drivers. They seem to want to be everywhere to soon and are obviously far to important to wait for a few seconds. Indicators appear not to be fitted ti any form of commercial vehicle either.
Maybe city 4WD ers are suspect but frankly the cities and all in them can go and take a jump so I care not a toss. In the countryside 4WDs tend be be driven properly. Just decided that I can exempt the milk lorries from the commercial vehicle hate but I'll add tourists.

Re: Who are the best/worst drivers on the road?

Posted: 13 Apr 2019, 4:39pm
by pwa
mattsccm wrote:Commercial vehicle drivers of any sort. There appears to be the general attitude that as they drive for a living they are more important than other road users as well as being better drivers. They seem to want to be everywhere to soon and are obviously far to important to wait for a few seconds. Indicators appear not to be fitted ti any form of commercial vehicle either.
Maybe city 4WD ers are suspect but frankly the cities and all in them can go and take a jump so I care not a toss. In the countryside 4WDs tend be be driven properly. Just decided that I can exempt the milk lorries from the commercial vehicle hate but I'll add tourists.

No. My son has had two cars written off by 4x4 drivers on Carmarthenshire roads. On both occasions he was stationary (with witnesses) and a 4x4 failed to stop and drove into his car.

As for commercial drivers, I witnessed one last week reversing about 50 metres to a passing place to allow an elderly lady in a small car to pass. She had refused to reverse in spite of being much closer to a passing place, demanding that the driver of the large van reverse instead. He did, patiently.

Re: Who are the best/worst drivers on the road?

Posted: 13 Apr 2019, 5:02pm
by reohn2
mattsccm wrote:Commercial vehicle drivers of any sort. There appears to be the general attitude that as they drive for a living they are more important than other road users as well as being better drivers. They seem to want to be everywhere to soon and are obviously far to important to wait for a few seconds. Indicators appear not to be fitted ti any form of commercial vehicle either.
Maybe city 4WD ers are suspect but frankly the cities and all in them can go and take a jump so I care not a toss. In the countryside 4WDs tend be be driven properly. Just decided that I can exempt the milk lorries from the commercial vehicle hate but I'll add tourists.

Generally I find commercial vehicle drivers to be exemplary when I'm driving or cycling,4x4 drivers are generally a completely different kettle of fish altogether.
Only yesterday driving on a singletrack country road with passing places,blind bends and blind summits aplenty,I pulled into a passing place to let the tailgating 4x4 driver pass only to watch him accelerate fiercely upto a speed well in excess of what was safe.
He or anyone else coming the other way wouldn't have stood a chance of avoiding a collision,such antics by 4x4 drivers aren't rare on country roads IME.

Re: Who are the best/worst drivers on the road?

Posted: 13 Apr 2019, 6:48pm
by Cugel
reohn2 wrote:
mattsccm wrote:Commercial vehicle drivers of any sort. There appears to be the general attitude that as they drive for a living they are more important than other road users as well as being better drivers. They seem to want to be everywhere to soon and are obviously far to important to wait for a few seconds. Indicators appear not to be fitted ti any form of commercial vehicle either.
Maybe city 4WD ers are suspect but frankly the cities and all in them can go and take a jump so I care not a toss. In the countryside 4WDs tend be be driven properly. Just decided that I can exempt the milk lorries from the commercial vehicle hate but I'll add tourists.

Generally I find commercial vehicle drivers to be exemplary when I'm driving or cycling,4x4 drivers are generally a completely different kettle of fish altogether.
Only yesterday driving on a singletrack country road with passing places,blind bends and blind summits aplenty,I pulled into a passing place to let the tailgating 4x4 driver pass only to watch him accelerate fiercely upto a speed well in excess of what was safe.
He or anyone else coming the other way wouldn't have stood a chance of avoiding a collision,such antics by 4x4 drivers aren't rare on country roads IME.


There is a tendency for a certain ilk of 4X4 drivers to be "entitled". They expect the lesser classes to get out of their way and to cater to their sometimes excessive speed and poor road positioning. Those in Range Rovers seem the worst, for some reason. Audi SUV-come-4X4s are also a bit that way. The driver is usually a gesticulating fat red-faced type inclined also to honk or even wind down a window and bellow.

Despite the ludicrous names of their vehicles, workaday 4X4s seem better driven. There is a "Barabarian" and a "Warrior" in the Mitsubishi range, for example. I have seen "Marauders", "Outlaws" and similar .... but they often behave quite well. Perhaps there is a "Raper & Pillager" or a "Bluddy-Minded Hooligan" also behaving well, despite the nomenclature dreamt up by the advertmen?

Some of the best drivers are mad old Welsh blokes on small and ancient tractors. They seem to use them as though they were a car, rather than as an agricultural vehicle. One often sees such a tractor parked outtside the village shop or on a neighbour's drive. They go slow and are very courteous.

Cugel

Re: Who are the best/worst drivers on the road?

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 1:52pm
by hemo
Some drivers of over large SUV's come 4 x 4 seem to think they are better protected and try to bully other road uses, in fact they are a menace to society and some driving skills are very poor.
One such vehicle followed me last night (I was driving a company 3.5t sprinter) from Betchworth to 40mph sign out of Leigh village he was glued to my backdoor not able to get pass as I adhered to the 30 & 40mph speed limits. On entering the Leigh Road another vehicle travelling at 30mph was about 3 secs ahead of me so this probably angered the driver behind me more. Eventually the guy behind had enough and passed in the 30 zone rapidly and misjudged the car distance in front so decided to career past that with a rh bend looming, his actions were careless and dangerous to say the least. He narrowly missed a vehicle coming around the bend and had to swerve quickly in front of the vehicle I was behind.

The bit I can't understand is why these cretins do it without being able to clearly see the road ahead is suitable or clear to pass, if he had waited another 200 - 300 yds he would have been along a straight with clearer vision.

Re: Who are the best/worst drivers on the road?

Posted: 15 Apr 2019, 2:46pm
by Vorpal
Cugel wrote:
Some of the best drivers are mad old Welsh blokes on small and ancient tractors. They seem to use them as though they were a car, rather than as an agricultural vehicle. One often sees such a tractor parked outtside the village shop or on a neighbour's drive. They go slow and are very courteous.

Cugel

I once met a farmer at a rural shop who had arrived on his tractor. I was familiar with the particular model and complimented him on it. Someone else said he always took it to the shop. It seemed a source of some amusement. I understood when he responded..

'I paid ninety thousand quid for the bloody thing. I am damn well going to use it for every *****ing thing that I can. Including shopping. And taking her indoors to her mum's on Saturdays."