Hi-vis? Pah.

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
kwackers
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Hi-vis? Pah.

Postby kwackers » 11 Nov 2016, 1:43pm

My old dirty 'blue' jacket has become so rank I gave into the sudden temptation to buy a new one (I work over the top of a bike shop).

So after 2 (maybe 3) years of wearing a not-too-visible blue jacket I suddenly had a fluorescent lime green one with mucho reflective emblazoned all over it!

Now can't say I've had too much of a problem with people not seeing me, perhaps one event every 3 months that requires me to take some sort of avoiding action.
But now in just 2 days since I bought the jacket have had 3 (very) near misses. Two from people turning right from side roads to my right causing me to head for the gutter as their car swings around and another from someone emerging from a side road I'm about to pass...
Coincidence? I'm beginning to think not...

However the good news is I forgot to lock my bike at the station. Only spotted it on the way home when I went through my bag trying to find the key and got that sinking feeling one has when one realises what's probably happened...
Worse, I pick a door on the train that stops directly in front of the stand I leave my bike at and there was no bike...
But then it turned out the train had stopped short and my bike was a bit further up - unlocked and unstolen! Huzzah for tourers, they look like old men's bikes, had it been a mtb...

(I've got some stuff to wash my old jacket in - had it for 12 months or so but it needs 'activating' in a dryer - and we don't have a dryer. Perhaps some sort of bag and a hair dryer will do)

PH
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Re: Hi-vis? Pah.

Postby PH » 11 Nov 2016, 2:06pm

It's just the luck of the draw.
I had my first off in 6 years a couple of weeks after buying the brightest jacket I've ever owned.
I've also left my bike parked in a city centre for several hours with the Garmin fitted...
And once locked my bike to a tree, or at least though I did, the lock missed the bike altogether
(I've got some stuff to wash my old jacket in - had it for 12 months or so but it needs 'activating' in a dryer - and we don't have a dryer. Perhaps some sort of bag and a hair dryer will do)

Any hot air does the same job, hairdryer is fine, I do mine with a fan heater. ironing it on a low setting is supposed to have the same effect, but I haven't tried it.

thirdcrank
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Re: Hi-vis? Pah.

Postby thirdcrank » 11 Nov 2016, 2:22pm

kwackers wrote: ... Coincidence? I'm beginning to think not...


I'll guess that it's something to do with expectations. Possibly an expectation that you would notice an improvement and didn't or more likely, an expectation that your opinions would be confirmed. :?:

kwackers
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Re: Hi-vis? Pah.

Postby kwackers » 11 Nov 2016, 2:25pm

thirdcrank wrote:I'll guess that it's something to do with expectations. Possibly an expectation that you would notice an improvement and didn't or more likely, an expectation that your opinions would be confirmed. :?:

If I had expectations it was that nothing would change.
I'm lit up like Christmas anyway and I believe that whatever you wear or whatever lights you have if they're looking they'll see you.

Almost certainly just co-incidence, although both right turners happened within a mile of each other on the same day! Haven't had one of those for yonks....

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RickH
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Re: Hi-vis? Pah.

Postby RickH » 11 Nov 2016, 2:33pm

I used to call my first radioactive lemon coloured jacket my cloak of invisibility as that seemed to be the effect it had!

I have wondered if hi-vis tends to make you visible from too far away so your presence has been shuffled out of other road users consciousness (possibly labelled as "only a bike") by the time they need to be paying attention to where you are.

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mjr
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Re: Hi-vis? Pah.

Postby mjr » 11 Nov 2016, 2:40pm

I've given up the hi-viz. I'd rather look more like a squishy human than some sort of alien warrior, in the hope that it provokes some subconscious bit of motorists' brains to realise they shouldn't crash into me like they would a car.

Hi-viz yellow is also low-contrast against low winter sun or many summer crops.
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Si
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Re: Hi-vis? Pah.

Postby Si » 11 Nov 2016, 3:55pm

Oh well, someone's got to say it: risk compensation - you are assuming you are more visible and so riding like a bat out of hell with you eyes shut :lol: :lol:

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gaz
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Re: Hi-vis? Pah.

Postby gaz » 11 Nov 2016, 4:06pm

kwackers wrote:... But now in just 2 days since I bought the jacket have had 3 (very) near misses. Two from people turning right from side roads to my right causing me to head for the gutter as their car swings around and another from someone emerging from a side road I'm about to pass...
Coincidence? I'm beginning to think not...

You need to sell it on quickly. Here's an ebay listing from which you may draw inspiration.
Missing, presumed fed.

Phil Fouracre
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Re: Hi-vis? Pah.

Postby Phil Fouracre » 11 Nov 2016, 4:22pm

Love the eBay posting, is that what you call priceless? :-)
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

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TrevA
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Re: Hi-vis? Pah.

Postby TrevA » 11 Nov 2016, 6:05pm

kwackers wrote:
However the good news is I forgot to lock my bike at the station. Only spotted it on the way home when I went through my bag trying to find the key and got that sinking feeling one has when one realises what's probably happened...
Worse, I pick a door on the train that stops directly in front of the stand I leave my bike at and there was no bike...
But then it turned out the train had stopped short and my bike was a bit further up - unlocked and unstolen!


I once forgot my lock whilst riding to the station. To prevent my bike from being stolen and ridden off, I took the front wheel out. However, I then left it on the train, only realising as the train was pulling out of the station after I had got off. I went to see the station manager and he managed to get someone to collect my wheel from the train, at a station further down the line, and then get it sent back to me. I collected it on my way from the office to the station, got on the train, got back to my original station and found my bike was still there, put the front wheel back in and rode home!
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
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Flinders
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Re: Hi-vis? Pah.

Postby Flinders » 12 Nov 2016, 4:13pm

I once stopped to shop at a local co-op. Carefully wrapped my cable lock around the bike and the front wheel and locked it.
Came out to find that was all I had done- wrapped it round the bike and the front wheel. I had completely missed wrapping the lock round the railings I was locking it to. I only noticed when the bike started to fall over as I put my shopping on it.
Nasty moment, and lucky the locals were all honest (or unobservant).

These days I I expect to stop for any length of time in a place of any significant size it's cable lock+heavy folding lock. Miserable, but too many bikes have been stolen in the towns here.

tim-b
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Re: Hi-vis? Pah.

Postby tim-b » 13 Nov 2016, 7:38am

Hi

Hi-vis is just that, and it's been demonstrated many times that it makes you more visible in daylight. Moving hi-vis is even better, e.g. bright-socks, knee and ankle bands, etc. (In darkness reflectives and lighting should be used)

The practical results are what matter, and it's never been demonstrated that hi-vis translates into greater safety for cyclists despite several studies, however, the stats don't help us to understand human behaviour.

The bottom line? We don't understand why cyclists wearing hi-vis remain at risk of collisions and I now hope that someone out there has started a behavioural study

Regards
tim-b
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pwa
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Re: Hi-vis? Pah.

Postby pwa » 13 Nov 2016, 7:50am

I've been wearing hi-viz / reflective stuff on the bike for a couple of decades and my rate of "incidents" is very low. I've no data to refer to so I don't know that the highly visible clothing is working, but I'm certain that it is not making me more vulnerable. And as a car driver I am 100% convinced that I notice cyclists wearing bright yellow tops sooner than those wearing dark red, blue, green, black, etc. But you wear what you want to, and I hope it works for you.

Winged wheels
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Re: Hi-vis? Pah.

Postby Winged wheels » 13 Nov 2016, 8:54am

What colour is high biz?
Yellow is tradition having started on American building sites. However plenty of background amber and yellow prevail on UK streets. Red rarely appears in nature nor on streets likewise orange. Therefore fluorescent Chartres Yellow, though bright in a shop may well blend in on the streets.
As a cyclist and motorcyclist I have pondered this question having been without my yellow hi vz a few years back. I rode a white m/c black leathers and white helmet. I seemed more visible, I contrasted. 3 months later my hi vz returned like an invisibility cape.
I now cycle and m/c in orange and contrast well.

kwackers
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Re: Hi-vis? Pah.

Postby kwackers » 13 Nov 2016, 9:10am

pwa wrote:And as a car driver I am 100% convinced that I notice cyclists wearing bright yellow tops sooner than those wearing dark red, blue, green, black, etc. But you wear what you want to, and I hope it works for you.

Yes they are. But are they too visible? Cyclists (particularly cyclists that look like cyclists) represent no danger to a car driver so once they're identified and dismissed they no longer register.
Ninjas on the other hand are deemed 'unpredicatable' and so possibly get more attention(?)
Whatever is going on, imo in street lit conditions you can see someone no matter how they're dressed in plenty of time to behave correctly.

In all 3 cases I had though there really was no excuse. I was perfectly visible, the hi-vis contrast to the background should have been higher or at least the same (unless I was inline of a sodium lamp - haven't checked that but I don't think so). The interesting bit I suppose is all 3 would have been people looking towards my 'front' and I wouldn't have been lit up by their headlights (although my B&M lighting is plenty bright enough).