One solution to tailgating?

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brooksby
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Re: One solution to tailgating?

Postby brooksby » 17 Oct 2019, 10:12am

Vorpal wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
Only a fool breaks the two second rule


Estimating distances is, I suspect, a skill beyond many drivers. Perhaps they can count "one thousand, two thousand."

That's what I do, if I'm not sure. It's, IMO, the best way to judge following distance, and something that anyone who is capable of driving should be capable of doing, even if they arenæt very good at distances.

And it's at least 3 thousands in rain or other reduced traction conditions.


I always do this. Especially on straight roads, where your speed can unintentionally "creep". Note a particular bush or puddle, count one thousand-two thousand (three thousand).

brynpoeth
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Re: One solution to tailgating?

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Oct 2019, 10:49am

Best to leave a much bigger gap than two seconds
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Cugel
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Re: One solution to tailgating?

Postby Cugel » 17 Oct 2019, 6:07pm

brynpoeth wrote:Best to leave a much bigger gap than two seconds


Quite so. Why bother with the impossible task of estimating "my braking distance" to the car in front then trying to place oneself exactly at this theoretical but elusive distance? Personally I leave "a long way" as the distance to any car in front I'm happy to emulate the speed of. This is generally at least one hundred yards on all but motorway or motorway-style roads (where it's more like 300 yards; or more).

In practice, you reach the same destination about 5 - 10 seconds after the fellow in front, rather after the 0.5 seconds of the tailgater. Is this a great loss to one's life, somehow, when other interesting things could be done instead with the 5 seconds? Hardly.

Many want to overtake, of course. Even those who don't go loon (doing it on the blind bend, humphill, approaching-a-junction or other asking-for-it place) often have no idea how to do overtaking. They think it will be a speedier matter if they get one yard from your rear bumper before pulling out and accelerating past (eventually). Of course, it takes far less time if the acceleration period occurs on the right (I mean the left) side of the road first before reaching the car to be overtaken and pulling out for a far briefer period. Ask any traffic rozzer.

Does no one ever really learn to drive well these days? Proper driving seems such a rarity.

Cugel

Vorpal
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Re: One solution to tailgating?

Postby Vorpal » 18 Oct 2019, 8:41am

If there is any significant amount of traffic, the braking distance is frequently being taken by people who think the gap is big enough to move into. I often end up going somewhat less than the speed limit because people change lanes directly into the space in front of me without enough braking distance for either of us. I subsequently slow down, and as soon as the gap is back up to 2 or 3 seconds, someone else moves into it :roll:
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PDQ Mobile
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Re: One solution to tailgating?

Postby PDQ Mobile » 18 Oct 2019, 9:37am

^^ vorpal.
I agree.
It is just one of those things in heavy traffic.

To some extent it is a necessary "spreading" of the traffic.
Entry points such as short motorway slip roads in intense traffic require the taking of available space and decision time can be very limited.

Sometimes I am in awe of the skill and concentration of all those brains to maintain flow without collision!!

Speed is the big variable here, as are weather/surface conditions plus extra hazards such as temporary lanes etc. Vehicle type and loading are also a big factors.

To merely rely on time counting a gap is perhaps not the best way of determining what is safe. A three second gap at 130 kph is different to one at 80kph in terms of overall efficacy.

DaveReading
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Re: One solution to tailgating?

Postby DaveReading » 18 Oct 2019, 11:47am

Vorpal wrote:If there is any significant amount of traffic, the braking distance is frequently being taken by people who think the gap is big enough to move into. I often end up going somewhat less than the speed limit because people change lanes directly into the space in front of me without enough braking distance for either of us. I subsequently slow down, and as soon as the gap is back up to 2 or 3 seconds, someone else moves into it :roll:

I used to get annoyed about that, until I started thinking about it from the other angle - in order to physically prevent someone moving into the gap ahead of you, how close would you have to be to the car in front? Answer: suicidally close.

Yes, you have to lift off to restore the space ahead of you if someone jumps into it. No, it's not a big deal when you consider the alternative.

mercalia
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Re: One solution to tailgating?

Postby mercalia » 6 Nov 2019, 6:29am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-50306577

Essex BMW driver wedged bed upright in back of convertible

MikeF
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Re: One solution to tailgating?

Postby MikeF » 6 Nov 2019, 8:15am

DaveReading wrote:
Vorpal wrote:If there is any significant amount of traffic, the braking distance is frequently being taken by people who think the gap is big enough to move into. I often end up going somewhat less than the speed limit because people change lanes directly into the space in front of me without enough braking distance for either of us. I subsequently slow down, and as soon as the gap is back up to 2 or 3 seconds, someone else moves into it :roll:

I used to get annoyed about that, until I started thinking about it from the other angle - in order to physically prevent someone moving into the gap ahead of you, how close would you have to be to the car in front? Answer: suicidally close.

Yes, you have to lift off to restore the space ahead of you if someone jumps into it. No, it's not a big deal when you consider the alternative.

First rule of motoring - if there's a gap fill it.
Applied everyday. :roll:
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

Debs
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Re: One solution to tailgating?

Postby Debs » 6 Nov 2019, 1:32pm

MikeF wrote:
DaveReading wrote:
Vorpal wrote:If there is any significant amount of traffic, the braking distance is frequently being taken by people who think the gap is big enough to move into. I often end up going somewhat less than the speed limit because people change lanes directly into the space in front of me without enough braking distance for either of us. I subsequently slow down, and as soon as the gap is back up to 2 or 3 seconds, someone else moves into it :roll:

I used to get annoyed about that, until I started thinking about it from the other angle - in order to physically prevent someone moving into the gap ahead of you, how close would you have to be to the car in front? Answer: suicidally close.

Yes, you have to lift off to restore the space ahead of you if someone jumps into it. No, it's not a big deal when you consider the alternative.

First rule of motoring - if there's a gap fill it.
Applied everyday. :roll:


A couple of weeks ago in my car i drove along the M5 [ near Worcester? ] to include the down hilly part where there are chevrons painted on the road, and with road signs that warn to Keep Two Chevrons Apart. However i found, even tho' it was raining fairly hard, every time i briefly glimpsed two chevrons between me and vehicle in front; a tailgating vehicle would overtake and cut-in to my 'braking distance', often just a few meters in front. So i would lift off [from 70mph to 65mph] to allow another two chevron gap to appear, but before this could happen the next tailgating vehicle would do exactly the same overtake and cut in far too closely.
Up ahead i could see dozens of vehicles seemingly 'jostling for position' only half a chevron apart, many doing more than 70mph and all in the pouring rain. Complete and utter madness. I decided to quit the wacky races and used the slow lane at around 60mph with a couple of seconds distance behind a big trucker :|

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mjr
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Re: One solution to tailgating?

Postby mjr » 6 Nov 2019, 3:22pm

Vorpal wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Just been out in my motor again, had not used it for nearly two months :)

Do you ever have problems with it? I worry about mine not starting when it has sat in front of the house for weeks. I try to run it once every couple of weeks.

After killing a couple of batteries a few years ago (it seems electronics and alarms mean the car's never completely off), mine has a solar trickle charger on its dashboard when parked at home. No problems starting it since fitting it.

brynpoeth wrote:Might one fail a driving test for not following the vehicle in front closely enough?

Yes. In fact, I did. I had eased off pulling away from some traffic lights because I suspected from the manner of driving that the motorist ahead was about to make a very sharp left turn into a big industrial site and they did. It was a road I cycled often and was well aware of ways of getting caught out braking and then accelerating, wasting energy and possibly starting a phantom jam. However, the examiner marked it as an extreme "failure to make progress" fault and failed me for it. My instructor advised me not to appeal because word would get around, there was no alternative test centre for hours around and I would easily pass next time with a different examiner - which I did.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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mjr
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Re: One solution to tailgating?

Postby mjr » 6 Nov 2019, 3:25pm

MOARspeed wrote:A lot of people are simply trying to drive to the highway code.

On my driving days I have to join a fast flowing 70 limit dual-carriageway, the slip lane is two lanes and I regularly find someone dawdling down that slip lane at 35mph, i'll get close at first because i'm expecting them to accelerate, I give them a chance, then i'll overtake, but 9 times in 10 they get all offended by this and start sounding their horn, flashing lights, etc etc.

Where does it tell you to do that in the highway code?!?

I often dawdle down a slip lane because I'm trying to create enough space between me and the car ahead so I can accelerate to match traffic on the through road and merge smoothly. It seems like many motorists can't merge for toffee.

MOARspeed wrote:The thing is, it's not always about pressure, it can often be about safety, you don't enter a 70 limit dual carriageway at just 35mph, you're going to cause chaos at best, or a very serious accident at worst.

It's not about the limit. It's about what speed the traffic on there is currently doing. I've joined the M5 at 5mph on summer Saturdays far too often. But I think you know that and just worded it badly.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Re: One solution to tailgating?

Postby MikeF » 6 Nov 2019, 5:32pm

Debs wrote:
MikeF wrote:
DaveReading wrote:I used to get annoyed about that, until I started thinking about it from the other angle - in order to physically prevent someone moving into the gap ahead of you, how close would you have to be to the car in front? Answer: suicidally close.

Yes, you have to lift off to restore the space ahead of you if someone jumps into it. No, it's not a big deal when you consider the alternative.

First rule of motoring - if there's a gap fill it.
Applied everyday. :roll:


A couple of weeks ago in my car i drove along the M5 [ near Worcester? ] to include the down hilly part where there are chevrons painted on the road, and with road signs that warn to Keep Two Chevrons Apart. However i found, even tho' it was raining fairly hard, every time i briefly glimpsed two chevrons between me and vehicle in front; a tailgating vehicle would overtake and cut-in to my 'braking distance', often just a few meters in front. So i would lift off [from 70mph to 65mph] to allow another two chevron gap to appear, but before this could happen the next tailgating vehicle would do exactly the same overtake and cut in far too closely.
Up ahead i could see dozens of vehicles seemingly 'jostling for position' only half a chevron apart, many doing more than 70mph and all in the pouring rain. Complete and utter madness. I decided to quit the wacky races and used the slow lane at around 60mph with a couple of seconds distance behind a big trucker :|


Proof indeed. However it doesn't have to be fast moving motor traffic where this rule applies. It applies to slow traffic as well. :roll:

Shouldn't it be 4 chevrons apart in the rain? 2 is for dry weather. Lanes, apart from the nearside one, are for overtaking. Where the concept of slow and fast lanes arises I don't know. The "slow" lane can often be the fastest. Most lorries are governed to 56mph (in spite of denial by many car drivers) because that equates to 90Kph, even though the actual motorway speed limit for them in the UK is 60mph
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

brynpoeth
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Re: One solution to tailgating?

Postby brynpoeth » 6 Nov 2019, 6:16pm

First, second, third lane of course
Better to leave much more room
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robing
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Re: One solution to tailgating?

Postby robing » 16 Nov 2019, 6:30pm

Worst offenders for tailgating on motorways are National Express coach drivers. Seen some really dangerous driving from them.

Bonefishblues
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Re: One solution to tailgating?

Postby Bonefishblues » 16 Nov 2019, 6:52pm

I definitely think that drafting (as I prefer to call it) helps my mpg, especially at higher speeds.