Vorpal wrote:In the Nordic countries, penalties for speeding are based upon the driver's income.
A similar scheme was enacted in Britain, with an initial pilot period to check it worked before full roll-out. The pilot study, which took place in south Wales, indicated problems. So rather than fix the clearly fixable problems, which clearly can be fixed because other countries do it, they just canned it.
The main problem was that it relied on people disclosing their income. If you didn't disclose, you got the maximum fine. Many people failed to disclose and got maximum fines. Mostly the people who failed to disclose their income were just inadequate people who didn't really understand what was going on, or else were refusing to cooperate. Typically they then failed to pay the fine also because they couldn't afford it. There was a particularly notorious case of a littering fine, which looked a bit like heavy-handed policing in the first place, and the plaintiff was refusing to cooperate in protest. Obviously a system that relies on people disclosing their income without an external check also suffers the risk that people will just lie.
Vorpal wrote:In the Nordic countries, penalties for speeding are based upon the driver's income.
A similar scheme was enacted in Britain, with an initial pilot period to check it worked before full roll-out. The pilot study, which took place in south Wales, indicated problems. So rather than fix the clearly fixable problems, which clearly can be fixed because other countries do it, they just canned it.
The main problem was that it relied on people disclosing their income. If you didn't disclose, you got the maximum fine. Many people failed to disclose and got maximum fines. Mostly the people who failed to disclose their income were just inadequate people who didn't really understand what was going on, or else were refusing to cooperate. Typically they then failed to pay the fine also because they couldn't afford it. There was a particularly notorious case of a littering fine, which looked a bit like heavy-handed policing in the first place, and the plaintiff was refusing to cooperate in protest. Obviously a system that relies on people disclosing their income without an external check also suffers the risk that people will just lie.
Simple answer,any correspondence with the court authorities requires a P60 or tax return copy,failure to do so earns the offender top fine. Totting up of points should be an absolute, 9 points banned,banned twice earns a retest
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Vorpal wrote:In the Nordic countries, penalties for speeding are based upon the driver's income.
A similar scheme was enacted in Britain, with an initial pilot period to check it worked before full roll-out. The pilot study, which took place in south Wales, indicated problems. So rather than fix the clearly fixable problems, which clearly can be fixed because other countries do it, they just canned it.
The main problem was that it relied on people disclosing their income. If you didn't disclose, you got the maximum fine. Many people failed to disclose and got maximum fines. Mostly the people who failed to disclose their income were just inadequate people who didn't really understand what was going on, or else were refusing to cooperate. Typically they then failed to pay the fine also because they couldn't afford it. There was a particularly notorious case of a littering fine, which looked a bit like heavy-handed policing in the first place, and the plaintiff was refusing to cooperate in protest. Obviously a system that relies on people disclosing their income without an external check also suffers the risk that people will just lie.
Simple answer,any correspondence with the court authorities requires a P60 or tax return copy,failure to do so earns the offender top fine. Totting up of points should be an absolute, 9 points banned,banned twice earns a retest
That's basically what they tried and found it doesn't work. The underlying problem is that most of the people going through our legal system are inadequate people, who fail to comply with such requirements, and imposing the maximum possible fine on them doesn't work because it is unenforceable. Clearly it is an effective method on Chelsea Tractor drivers, but these are a minority of people going through the system, and the system has to work for all, not just the rich.
iviehoff wrote:That's basically what they tried and found it doesn't work. The underlying problem is that most of the people going through our legal system are inadequate people, who fail to comply with such requirements, and imposing the maximum possible fine on them doesn't work because it is unenforceable. Clearly it is an effective method on Chelsea Tractor drivers, but these are a minority of people going through the system, and the system has to work for all, not just the rich.
So what we're saying is that someone who can fill in the application forms for a driving test,sit a theory exam.Then sit a practical exam passing both,buy a car fill in and pay for all the legal requirements needed to drive it on the road,can't figure out how to present their previous years earnings to a court to be assessed for saving themselves a huge fine?
We have to question whether someone who can't read simple text should be driving at all.
The term 'slinging the lead' or 'playing the system' spring readily to mind.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
I smell a problem here. Surely one does not set the speed control to the MAXIMUM allowed? I have a little experience with cruise control, I imagine there are very few situations where one can travel a significant distance at a constant speed.
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120 Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
If driving is stressful due to the possibility of getting caught speeding, there is a simple solution. Don't speed.
An interesting thread. Here in Bristol there's a 20mph limit on most roads in the city, but hardly anyone observes it. I've just made a three mile journey by car and have stuck to an indicated 22mph and was tailgated by drivers who were clearly irritated at going so slowly. I'm all for the lower limit as my daily commute by bike on the narrow streets here can be seriously stressful. I do wonder how much all those 20mph signs cost if the limits are not enforced...
If driving is stressful due to the possibility of getting caught speeding, there is a simple solution. Don't speed.
An interesting thread. Here in Bristol there's a 20mph limit on most roads in the city, but hardly anyone observes it. I've just made a three mile journey by car and have stuck to an indicated 22mph and was tailgated by drivers who were clearly irritated at going so slowly. I'm all for the lower limit as my daily commute by bike on the narrow streets here can be seriously stressful. I do wonder how much all those 20mph signs cost if the limits are not enforced...
You were doing the correct thing. You were kind of like the speed limit yourself. Nobody could overtake you and were thus forced to drive slowly. I know it pisses people off, but if their frustration leads to an accident at least their accident will be one at a slow speed. Killing 2 birds with one shot.
If driving is stressful due to the possibility of getting caught speeding, there is a simple solution. Don't speed.
An interesting thread. Here in Bristol there's a 20mph limit on most roads in the city, but hardly anyone observes it. I've just made a three mile journey by car and have stuck to an indicated 22mph and was tailgated by drivers who were clearly irritated at going so slowly. I'm all for the lower limit as my daily commute by bike on the narrow streets here can be seriously stressful. I do wonder how much all those 20mph signs cost if the limits are not enforced...
You were doing the correct thing. You were kind of like the speed limit yourself. Nobody could overtake you and were thus forced to drive slowly. I know it pisses people off, but if their frustration leads to an accident at least their accident will be one at a slow speed. Killing 2 birds with one shot.
If it makes you feel any better, I am soon to attend a speed awareness course after being caught exceeding a 20mph limit. I was clocked at 24mph. Unintentional on my part. Lack of concentration. Fair cop. But at least it allows me to state with confidence that enforcement does happen, around here at least.
If driving is stressful due to the possibility of getting caught speeding, there is a simple solution. Don't speed.
An interesting thread. Here in Bristol there's a 20mph limit on most roads in the city, but hardly anyone observes it. I've just made a three mile journey by car and have stuck to an indicated 22mph and was tailgated by drivers who were clearly irritated at going so slowly. I'm all for the lower limit as my daily commute by bike on the narrow streets here can be seriously stressful. I do wonder how much all those 20mph signs cost if the limits are not enforced...
If you were doing 22 mph you were above the maximum allowed. You should do 19 or less. That will annoy the terrorists a bit more. Make sure your doors and windows are closed in case one of them wants to have a discussion with you
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120 Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
If driving is stressful due to the possibility of getting caught speeding, there is a simple solution. Don't speed.
An interesting thread. Here in Bristol there's a 20mph limit on most roads in the city, but hardly anyone observes it. I've just made a three mile journey by car and have stuck to an indicated 22mph and was tailgated by drivers who were clearly irritated at going so slowly. I'm all for the lower limit as my daily commute by bike on the narrow streets here can be seriously stressful. I do wonder how much all those 20mph signs cost if the limits are not enforced...
If you were doing 22 mph you were above the maximum allowed. You should do 19 or less. That will annoy the terrorists a bit more. Make sure your doors and windows are closed in case one of them wants to have a discussion with you
An "indicated 22mph" probably indicates an actual 20mph, since car speedos exaggerate a bit.
boneshaker wrote: An interesting thread. Here in Bristol there's a 20mph limit on most roads in the city, but hardly anyone observes it. I've just made a three mile journey by car and have stuck to an indicated 22mph and was tailgated by drivers who were clearly irritated at going so slowly. I'm all for the lower limit as my daily commute by bike on the narrow streets here can be seriously stressful. I do wonder how much all those 20mph signs cost if the limits are not enforced...
You were doing the correct thing. You were kind of like the speed limit yourself. Nobody could overtake you and were thus forced to drive slowly. I know it pisses people off, but if their frustration leads to an accident at least their accident will be one at a slow speed. Killing 2 birds with one shot.
If it makes you feel any better, I am soon to attend a speed awareness course after being caught exceeding a 20mph limit. I was clocked at 24mph. Unintentional on my part. Lack of concentration. Fair cop. But at least it allows me to state with confidence that enforcement does happen, around here at least.
Hello pwa. It would be gr8 if you could describe your experience at the speed awareness course on this forum. I am particularly interested to know what sort of people attend, is it an alternative to points and/or a fine? I have never been caught speeding but the cops did follow me home late one night because I was going slowly
Diolch yn fawr iawn
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120 Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
Cyril Haearn wrote:It would be gr8 if you could describe your experience at the speed awareness course on this forum.
I went on one 3 years ago. It was a long session, I think deliberately so that people left after normal work time leaving. The course was very well run with no finger pointing or accusations. Attendees ranged from innocent little me, a housewife who claimed to drive 12000 miles a year without leaving town, a company rep, a lorry driver but none of the stereotypical boy racers. At the start of the session all people claimed to be highly trained and skilled and "had to" speed. Throughput the course it was staggering how little they knew about road signs, lack of road signs, or speed limits etc that apply to other classes of vehicles (lorries, vans etc). By the end of the session they were all admitting to have learned much. How long the new knowledge stayed with them I do not know, but it was the sort of refresher type course that many people could benefit from whether or not they'd been flashed by a camera. For me, it was a most enjoyable afternoon.
Cyril Haearn wrote:It would be gr8 if you could describe your experience at the speed awareness course on this forum.
I went on one 3 years ago. It was a long session, I think deliberately so that people left after normal work time leaving. The course was very well run with no finger pointing or accusations. Attendees ranged from innocent little me, a housewife who claimed to drive 12000 miles a year without leaving town, a company rep, a lorry driver but none of the stereotypical boy racers. At the start of the session all people claimed to be highly trained and skilled and "had to" speed. Throughput the course it was staggering how little they knew about road signs, lack of road signs, or speed limits etc that apply to other classes of vehicles (lorries, vans etc). By the end of the session they were all admitting to have learned much. How long the new knowledge stayed with them I do not know, but it was the sort of refresher type course that many people could benefit from whether or not they'd been flashed by a camera. For me, it was a most enjoyable afternoon.
Thanks very much.
Enjoyable?! Learning is always good, but but.. Did the speakers try to make you feel remorse? Did it have a lasting effect, is your average speed lower now?
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120 Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
