Cycling UK Forum

kwackers wrote:

Cyril Haearn wrote:with a combined speed of 20kmh

20kmh? That's not jogging that's a sprint! Most joggers run at about 8-12 kmh, particularly if they're two abreast.

What about pedestrians walking three, sometimes even four abreast!
It's about time we made all this side by side shenanigans illegal, everyone is doing it these days. Don't know what the world is coming to...

The joggers are doing 8kmh, I have slowed down to 12. I think joggers should behave more like cyclists because they are so fast. I go slowly on a narrow path when children and dogs are around, the jogging idiots go too fast

Cyril Haearn wrote:The joggers are doing 8kmh, I have slowed down to 12. I think joggers should behave more like cyclists because they are so fast. I go slowly on a narrow path when children and dogs are around, the jogging idiots go too fast

8kmh? So about 2km over what a fast walk is?

You know at that speed a person with legs can stop in pretty much a single step, about 2 feet.
Even at race speed (about 16kmh) I can stop in two paces, about 4 feet. That's far less I could at the same speed on a bike and I'd have far more control (I can jump sideways if I need to when jogging).

Why's it ok for you to do 12kmh but not for them to travel a bit faster than a fast walk? Do you think they should be using speedometers?

In all my years of jogging the only issue I've ever had with other users on paths it's pretty much always been cyclists and it's always of a result of them travelling faster than they can safely stop particularly around blind bends.
(Oh and stretchy dog leads, but we'll ignore them for the sake of this discussion)

OTOH, as a cyclist I've never had an issue with joggers, do you think that's because I both cycle and jog? Perhaps if car drivers were also cyclists they'd be more tolerant of both?
Whadya think?

kwackers wrote:

Cyril Haearn wrote:The joggers are doing 8kmh, I have slowed down to 12. I think joggers should behave more like cyclists because they are so fast. I go slowly on a narrow path when children and dogs are around, the jogging idiots go too fast

8kmh? So about 2km over what a fast walk is?

You know at that speed a person with legs can stop in pretty much a single step, about 2 feet.
Even at race speed (about 16kmh) I can stop in two paces, about 4 feet. That's far less I could at the same speed on a bike and I'd have far more control (I can jump sideways if I need to when jogging).

Why's it ok for you to do 12kmh but not for them to travel a bit faster than a fast walk? Do you think they should be using speedometers?

In all my years of jogging the only issue I've ever had with other users on paths it's pretty much always been cyclists and it's always of a result of them travelling faster than they can safely stop particularly around blind bends.
(Oh and stretchy dog leads, but we'll ignore them for the sake of this discussion)

OTOH, as a cyclist I've never had an issue with joggers, do you think that's because I both cycle and jog? Perhaps if car drivers were also cyclists they'd be more tolerant of both?
Whadya think?

As cyclists we learned to single out, joggers should do the same. I refer to joggers going the other way who of course can see me. In any situation one should keep a certain distance from strangers and avoid touching them. I walk a lot, slowly (4 kmh maybe), I do not jog and I cycle slowly.

The Grauniad had an article about jogging recently which explained that it was not fun, unlike cycling. * I am happy to believe that, I remember freezing doing cross country at school. Lucky we didn't have cycling at school, that would likely have put me off

* alternative facts welcome.

eileithyia wrote:Damned if you do damned if you don't. Some time ago when negotiating a track that needed both hands on brakes to control the tandem, walkers who had already moved out of the way for the ex.. moved back across the track without looking.... my cheery 'Hello, coming past' (or whatever) was greeted with a friendly comment re bells..... explained even if i had one i would not be able to take hand off the bars to operate it as i needed both on the brakes.

Locally on our shared paths it would not matter if you used a bell or voice, they are all permenently plugged into a device and oblivious to all passing traffic.

Had similar last week, coming up a hill on a single track road i saw a horse in the distance , knowing the road had pass points at the top i too it slow as to allow the rider to get to the top .The lady looked back at me numerous times and as i gave a polite coming by call she shouted " why didnt you ring your bell " what a turnip .........

I've probably posted this before: Me on a shared use path. Rings bell. Lady 'Thank you for the warning, so few people have a bell these days". 100 yards later. Rings bell: "Ting ting yerself pal"
For every person who dislikes a bell there will be one who thinks you should be using one.
I just think it is symptomatic of the way we completely fail to understand shared space in this country. The fact that even cyclists construe bells in such a negative way is pretty damning. For some reason people over here appear to be intensely territorial & hostile to other people being in 'our' space. A bell is just a bell. It isn't some sort of status symbol. People just seem to want to impute all sorts of negative motives when the other person is simply trying to warn you of their presence. Lighten up !!

I fear that Car Horn (Mis)use habits have worked their way across to bicycle bells.

Use of the Car horn is meant to be a warning signal, but we all know that most of the time it is used as an instrument of retribution.

Thus, it is 50:50 chance whether the pedestrian will interpret the ring-ring as a helpful warning or as a get-out-of-my-way message.

Just be ready for the angry ones.

Graham wrote:Use of the Car horn is meant to be a warning signal, but we all know that most of the time it is used as an instrument of retribution.

Not even that. A lot of the time it's there to announce to some pal or buddy of the driver, walking along the pavement or getting out of a car opposite: "Yoo-hoo! It's me!"

I have to admit, my father used to toot the horn, on coming home, as he drove up the driveway. This was a summons to someone in the house to come out and open the garage door. This was of course long before the days of remote-controlled garage doors*.

*Something I don't have, not even now. But then - my car won't fit in the garage. Too full of bikes....

Don't get me started on horns Graham [emoji49]This morning my work entailed pruning an old holly and clearing a large stand of bamboo with a chainsaw. The offending plants were blocking the light from my client's neighbour's driveway.

*Enter stage left: Neighbour chugging down his driveway in his car, on returning from collecting his newspaper. (Yes I know)*

So delighted was said neighbour, with his new-found chunk of blue sky, he leaned on his horn and gave me the thumbs up!

Me: startled? Too right! Nearly severed my left ankle off with my saw in fright.

But all is forgiven. I've chucked some free bamboo rhizomes behind his shed to thank him for being such a cheerful fellow.

Graham wrote:Thus, it is 50:50 chance whether the pedestrian will interpret the ring-ring as a helpful warning or as a get-out-of-my-way message.

Just be ready for the angry ones.

I wonder if it's just a distance thing.
I ting whilst 30-40 feet away, then again if they don't respond 20 feet or so away, then I slow down and say 'scuse me if they still don't respond.

Tinging one's bell right next to them my be seen as aggression, tinging it from many feet away might be seen as a warning.

I've never had any bell complaints - apart from one person that complained about me not using it even though I had...

Some of it may be about how the bell is used, but as in my anecdote the variable is often the pedestrian. Besides, there is enough evidence on this thread that there is an attitude to bell usage which is all about how the person hearing the sound perceives the intent behind the action.

Recently on the school run (collecting, so daughter not on board) I rung my bell 3 times. Lady with dog doesn't hear and let's her hound out in it's invisible, retractable lead thing right across the 'shared path'?

So I holler, 'EXCUSE ME.' I get up to the 'lady' and she starts yelling at me. You know the spiel: "...you should get a bell etc etc..."

My chance for summer-sandal dryness:

And you Madame should get hearing aids.' And rung my Lion Works brass bell for maximum effect.

Much blushing and a childish apology from her. And you complain about our yoof.

Tut.

After selling our "family" home we rented a flat for 12 months until we found our "retirement" home [quotation marks used as we seem to have more members of the family living/staying with us in our smaller home now, than prior to selling the larger place ]. Unfortunately said flat was over a hairdressers. As I work night shifts 1 week in 5, I was always less than impressed when hubby/partner tooted horn to inform freshly coiffured other half that he was now parked outside (and immediately below our bedroom window). On one particular occasion driver decided that his other half had not heard the first toot and gave it another go, luckily for him he had just pulled away as I stormed out of the front door with a red mist in front of my eyes!
I did manage to control myself enough to pop in to the hairdressers to ask if they would tell their clients to refrain from such practices. Lasted all of two weeks and I decided I would use the loft (spare) bedroom as I couldn't hear anything up there.

I've always found it best to slow right down when passing a pedestrian on a path and ring my bell. As it's not very loud,
as soon as the pedestrian has turned round to acknowledge me I always remark that it's a cheap bell. This has always
elicited a smile and a cheery comment from them.

661-Pete wrote: . . . my father used to toot the horn, on coming home, as he drove up the driveway. This was a summons to someone in the house to come out and open the garage door. This was of course long before the days of remote-controlled garage doors*.

You had a garage ?

Graham wrote:Thus, it is 50:50 chance whether the pedestrian will interpret the ring-ring as a helpful warning or as a get-out-of-my-way message.

Just be ready for the angry ones.

I've had only one person complain to me about a bell and that's in passing thousands of people over the years. I've had an occasional complaint about not using a bell including one from a fool who was standing chatting to his "friend" and watching me approach from a distance. It's how you use a bell on shared paths that counts. And it very much depends on the type of path as well.