Cymru am byth - we love Wales!

[pwa]

I wish there were a map showing how Welsh language use rates vary across Wales. I have vague ideas in my head, that Welsh kicks in somewhere around Llanelli (travelling West) and is pretty strong around, say, Tregaron, but I'm not sure where I got that from. I know I hear none around here, but if I pop into a local shop in Tregaron I'm likely to hear some, but I'd like to see that represented on a map.

[Cyril Haearn]

as one cycles past trying to say "Bora Da" without sounding English

You are always going to sound English but you could be a bit less obvious if you used the more colloquial "Siwmae*" instead of "Bore Da".

*Pronounced in various ways something like "shmai".

"Shw mae" or "sut ydy chi" I learnt in the Gogledd

"Da iawn diolch" - very well thank you

Caerdydd has probably the greatest number of Welsh speakers although the % is low, apparently many of them live in a particular suburb and many are from the North and the West

[meic]

A first rough line to have in your mind is The Landsker Line.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsker_Line

Scrolling down the page shows the map that you seek.

[meic]

Caerdydd has probably the greatest number of Welsh speakers although the % is low, apparently many of them live in a particular suburb and many are from the North and the West

If this is based on self-reporting there will be a distinct bias towards English speaking areas.
A poor Welsh speaker in the predominantly English speaking region will be much more likely to self report as "Welsh speaking" than someone of a better ability in a Welsh speaking area.

[pwa]

A first rough line to have in your mind is The Landsker Line.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsker_Line

Scrolling down the page shows the map that you seek.

Yes, thanks, that's a good map. And it roughly tallies with my expectations. Welsh begins at Llanelli, or sort of. (Looking from my position in the SE)

[meic]

Odd you should say that, I thought Welsh ended after Llanelli, sort of.

[AndyK]

as one cycles past trying to say "Bora Da" without sounding English

You are always going to sound English but you could be a bit less obvious if you used the more colloquial "Siwmae*" instead of "Bore Da".

*Pronounced in various ways something like "shmai".

It turns out 15th October is Shwmae Su'mae Day! Mark it in your diary now.

[Cugel]

One problem with getting a native to speak Welsh is that those few who do so tend to have different pronunciations; and they often disagree fervently with the pronunciations of the folk in the next village. I'm often told that one person won't talk to another in Welsh because, "They don't speak it properly".

The last time I saw some statistics about the percentage of Welsh speakers, it seemed that Cardiff and the SE of Wales had the least percentage (less than 5%) whilst Pwllheli and 'round about had the greatest (93%). My experience around Cardigan, Newcastle Emlyn, Lampeter and most of Pembrokeshire is that children are the least likely to choose to speak Welsh, even though they are often educated in nothing but Welsh. They reject it as it doesn't have the terminology or argot describing the things they're interested in most - the sort of stuff that comes to them via the popular mass media outlets geared at entertaining yoofs.

I had a long conversation with a group of ladies in a Welsh market one day concerning the teaching in Welsh schools where Welsh is the only language used - English banned for teaching purposes. This policy is an attempt to increase the percentage of people speaking Welsh, to preserve Welsh culture and identity. The ladies had all been greatly in favour at first but, as their children migrated out of Wales to universities, colleges and jobs elsewhere, they found that those children were at a serious disadvantage as they didn't have sufficient English of various technical kinds to cope as easily as native English speakers.

*****
Personally I'd like to see the Welsh language prosper and Welsh culture with it. The sad fact is that English-based mass media has already suborned the minds of most in Wales. Traditional interests survive but are struggling, as even the canny Welsh succumb to TV watching and the consumption of both English and Yank junk entertainments.

Still, Hinterland was quite good, if rather dark and depressing.

Cugel

[meic]

English banned for teaching purposes.

In the same way that German is banned for teaching purposes in English schools?
English isnt banned, it is a Welsh school they just teach in Welsh because it is a Welsh language school, not English, not French, not Spanish.

they found that those children were at a serious disadvantage as they didn't have sufficient English of various technical kinds to cope as easily as native English speakers.

This is their opinion, which isnt supported by any facts. The record of achievement at English Universities for ex-pupils from our local school is very good. A lot better than the English speaking school but that is for the reasons of Welsh language being a form of selective schooling more than Welsh being a better language to learn through.

[meic]

and most of Pembrokeshire

Pembrokeshire only has two Welsh medium secondary schools.
Crymych, which is fed equally by rural Carmarthenshire as Pembrokeshire.
Ysgol Caer Elin, which has been open for all of six weeks.

[cheapnidaye]

[cheapnidaye]

1.3 is the Welsh national day

I love Wales because many of my best cycling memories are Welsh, and many of my best non-cycling memories

I love Wales because it is not too big or too small

I love walking in Wales, weather air and views

I love Wales because it is both familiar and strange. Everyone can speak English but..

I love the Welsh language

[Cugel]

English banned for teaching purposes.

In the same way that German is banned for teaching purposes in English schools?
English isnt banned, it is a Welsh school they just teach in Welsh because it is a Welsh language school, not English, not French, not Spanish.

they found that those children were at a serious disadvantage as they didn't have sufficient English of various technical kinds to cope as easily as native English speakers.

This is their opinion, which isnt supported by any facts. The record of achievement at English Universities for ex-pupils from our local school is very good. A lot better than the English speaking school but that is for the reasons of Welsh language being a form of selective schooling more than Welsh being a better language to learn through.

Wales is part of the UK and most people (by a large degree) in Wales speak only English. The schools should perhaps have a language policy that follows those facts.

There have been, as you know, some very hot discussions about this Welsh-only teaching policy, with mad statements from some, such as, "If you don't like it, move the England". Nationalism, eh! Next they'll be doing ethnic cleansing! (No they won't).

Welsh people in all universities do well; It must be their natural intelligence. But there is no doubt that those schooled in technical subjects employing only Welsh language do struggle initially with the technical English, since they haven't experienced it. The technical English, not Welsh, is employed in most universities - even the Welsh ones!

***
Why get all exclusive and ideological about language? Isn't it better to have a few rather than just one? I wish I did.

Cugel

[Cyril Haearn]

You will soon

I have two, learnt German as an adult, plus a bit of Welsh and French

Meic knows more about this, but I thought all children in Wales had Welsh, some bbc people broadcast in both, why do you think the brain has two halves?

You *must* read this book, Cugel:

Spoken Here by Mark Abley, about small languages, the author is part Welsh but his parents told him they were English

[PDQ Mobile]

Welsh people in all universities do well; It must be their natural intelligence. But there is no doubt that those schooled in technical subjects employing only Welsh language do struggle initially with the technical English, since they haven't experienced it. The technical English, not Welsh, is employed in most universities - even the Welsh ones!

***
Why get all exclusive and ideological about language? Isn't it better to have a few rather than just one? I wish I did.

Cugel

But for a man (?) of your obvious interest in so many diverse things, often with a philosophical and cognitive interest slant, herein lies a veritable treasure trove.
That bi-(or multi) lingualism has cognitive benefits has been shown many times by many studies.
The philosophical side of it is:- how much is your perception influenced by language? For example Welsh divides the colour spectrum in a slightly different way. Then there's word order and all sorts of other syntactic influences.
The world is omnipresent, we view it through the filter of human language. Maybe?


Bryn;
the language centres in the brain are actually quite small, mostly left front hemiphere in most people. But obviously interconnected into memory and more!!
There have been some remarkable things that have happened to stroke victims for example.

And with that I am now off to a birthday picnic!
Pen Blwydd Hapus!