Dangerous Warburtons HGV Driver

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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jatindersangha
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Joined: 23 Jun 2015, 11:19am

Dangerous Warburtons HGV Driver

Post by jatindersangha »

Whilst commuting to work last week, had this incident with a HGV.

https://youtu.be/nOB538zCr_M

Skip the first 45 seconds if you want.

I can't believe that anyone in their right mind would overtake at that point, and certainly not someone driving a HGV!

--Jatinder
AlaninWales
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Re: Dangerous Warburtons HGV Driver

Post by AlaninWales »

Daft place to start an overtake, agreed. At least he didn't just forget you were there and pull in when the oncoming headlights appeared (although I suspect he would have, if he'd managed to get the cab past you by then :x ).
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Tigerbiten
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Re: Dangerous Warburtons HGV Driver

Post by Tigerbiten »

Send the clip in a formal e-mail to Warburtons head office with the place, date and time.
That way they can probably trace the driver and have a word with him.
That will probably get you a better result than reporting it to the police.

In the e-mail apologise for swearing at the driver but mention you where a bit scared/cross from what had just/might have happened .......... :P
jatindersangha
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Re: Dangerous Warburtons HGV Driver

Post by jatindersangha »

I have indeed written a complaint letter to Jonathan Warburton with a copy of the video. I also kind of "apologised" for my swearing - blaming it on the adrenaline!

--Jatinder
Postboxer
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Re: Dangerous Warburtons HGV Driver

Post by Postboxer »

You should have called the driver a muppet but that would insult the fine folk in their TV advert.
jatindersangha
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Re: Dangerous Warburtons HGV Driver

Post by jatindersangha »

I knew he was coming up behind me, and I looked back twice at the driver to indicate that that I knew he was there - and I rode in primary as obviously, that's not a good place to overtake...as I realized that he was actually going for it, I started to mutter loudly to myself and when we both saw the oncoming van and the driver of the HGV slammed his brakes on, I'll admit that I could barely control myself.

I almost dropped the bike so I could go and pull him from his cab and beat him around the head with a giant crumpet - but I quickly realized what I was doing and just "asked" if he was blind instead ;-)
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Dangerous Warburtons HGV Driver

Post by The utility cyclist »

same old, personally I would report to police, dangerous driving not just to a vulnerable road user in an impossible place to pass safely but also to oncoming vehicles.
Adrenaline/fear is what makes you shout out expletives, any copper giving it breach of the peace etc is lying because there's no-one in earshot in any case including the driver.
you'll get fobbed off by the police, or that's the likely outcome given previous form, but if you/we don't press them nothing will change.
eileithyia
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Re: Dangerous Warburtons HGV Driver

Post by eileithyia »

It's a pity businesses don't also list their insurers on their websites etc., am sure the insurance company would take a dim view of such conduct also.
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells
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meic
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Re: Dangerous Warburtons HGV Driver

Post by meic »

You are probably right that if they had managed to get his cab past you then they would have pushed you off the road or scrunched you when something came the other way, or may be even in case something came the other way.
However something arrived soon enough that he aborted the overtake and there was neither a collision nor a close encounter between any of the vehicles. It may have been an attempt to try something very stupid but I think that he withdrew from the maneuver before it actually got dangerous.
Partly due to the decent driving from the delivery van.
Yma o Hyd
Tangled Metal
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Re: Dangerous Warburtons HGV Driver

Post by Tangled Metal »

Morrison's HGV in my case. Overtaking round a bend with double white lines in the middle. I was doing about 18mph at the time and it's a busy road. No camera. Was so angry i noted the trailer number and registration plate number but in the internal rant I had about the driver i forgot the numbers. I did speed up a lot though. Ride angry it will help with your Strava PBs!

BTW that incident happened when a major local road link was being built. A lot of heavy goods vehicles going north from Morecambe/Heysham took the A6 north instead of going around the edge of Lancaster to junction 34 of the m6. It meant a few narrow roads through the likes of slyne with hest and Carnforth got exceptionally heavy use by HGVs. They still need to repair a lot of the road. The a6 isn't a trunk road that's remotely suitable for that traffic.

BTW the worst case was a truck carrying reinforced concrete beams. It had no bed to the truck so when it pulled in on me i ended up between the wheels of the trailer. Scary indeed. I survived but got angry with no means to vent other than on myself by riding angry. That was the classic truck overtaking a static object. It would have been ok if i wasn't moving. Still how was he to know i was doing 18mph? Oh yes, because his speedo was doing that when he sat behind me until that bend he tried to overtake at (same spot as the Morrison's).

So if you get any response you're doing it for every cyclist who has ever been overtaken by a truck in similar cases. Cyclists who never had the camera recording the corroboration. Who never reported the incident because of that. It can only help. If nothing happens it's still on record with them. Report to the police too. I know it's likely to be a waste of time but it's a report that probably sits on their system somewhere. In the future it might be looked at do some good when part of a collective of reports.
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meic
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Re: Dangerous Warburtons HGV Driver

Post by meic »

I have been in that scenario a few times myself. What really needs emphasis is how important your road position is. By riding out in primary you forced the lorry driver to actually have to get out on the other side and then he had to stop when oncoming arrived. In a more passive secondary position they will act as if they are still on their side of the road and carry on instead of stopping and just move over into that bit of the road on the left which the cyclist is in, the cyclist will leave the road (most times) when that happens.

Unfortunately on busier roads it takes a lot of bottle to hold the primary with a build up of irate traffic behind.
Yma o Hyd
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horizon
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Re: Dangerous Warburtons HGV Driver

Post by horizon »

meic wrote:I have been in that scenario a few times myself. What really needs emphasis is how important your road position is. By riding out in primary you forced the lorry driver to actually have to get out on the other side and then he had to stop when oncoming arrived. In a more passive secondary position they will act as if they are still on their side of the road and carry on instead of stopping and just move over into that bit of the road on the left which the cyclist is in, the cyclist will leave the road (most times) when that happens.

Unfortunately on busier roads it takes a lot of bottle to hold the primary with a build up of irate traffic behind.


+1

My alternative scenario is as follows:

1. Cyclist sees hill ahead and checks RVM (rear view mirror) for a protecting vehicle. Identifies HGV as excellent such protection.
2. Cyclist takes primary postion well in advance of HGV approaching.
3. Cyclist zig-zags slightly to indicate to HGV driver that no overtake is possible. Waves arm in "pushback" mode to empahaise that no overtake must be attempted.
4. HGV then follows cyclist up the hill and over the blind summit. HGV (1) prevents other cars overtaking from rear on hill (2) creates high marker for oncoming cars discouraging overtaking (3) prevents rear shunt once the cyclist is just out of sight over the hill.
5. Just over the hill the cyclist waves HGV on with thank you wave and thumbs up. Driver of HGV toots response and drives on happily.
6. OP changes thread title to "How to use HGVs to protect you when cycling on narrow roads".

Some people might find all that bit of a faff. With practice it becomes simple and second-nature and makes cycling on such roads much, much more relaxing - that's certainly my experience anyway.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Bonefishblues
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Re: Dangerous Warburtons HGV Driver

Post by Bonefishblues »

Good advice, everyone goes on their way with a warm glow.
jatindersangha
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Joined: 23 Jun 2015, 11:19am

Re: Dangerous Warburtons HGV Driver

Post by jatindersangha »

Agreed, very good advice.

I'll give it a go.

--Jatinder
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Tigerbiten
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Re: Dangerous Warburtons HGV Driver

Post by Tigerbiten »

meic wrote:I have been in that scenario a few times myself. What really needs emphasis is how important your road position is. By riding out in primary you forced the lorry driver to actually have to get out on the other side and then he had to stop when oncoming arrived. In a more passive secondary position they will act as if they are still on their side of the road and carry on instead of stopping and just move over into that bit of the road on the left which the cyclist is in, the cyclist will leave the road (most times) when that happens.

Unfortunately on busier roads it takes a lot of bottle to hold the primary with a build up of irate traffic behind.

One advantage of riding a recumbent trike is the extra width on the road. If I've riding it normally then I'm between 18"-24" wider than a bike. This means is I'm not always riding in a primary position, I'm not far off one unless the road is extra wide. This does help with the other traffic giving me better overtakes than if I was on a bike. You'll be amazed at the extra room you are given if you are on a bent trike and most bent trike riders say the same ........ :D
One downside is the extra width which makes filtering in heavy traffic just about impossible. Plus being so low down doesn't help as I dont see over/passed cars ......... :(
I much prefer the advantage to the disadvantage ......... :lol:

Another advantage is I'm below the wind blast from most lorries and being on three wheels means I cannot wobble from it. So big stuff going passed fast doesn't really bother me as long as they don't pull in early.
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