Dangerous Warburtons HGV Driver

[Vantage]

Over if the front vehicle is turning left, under if it's turning right.
If the front vehicle is a bike then I don't think either maneuver is given much thought.

[[XAP]Bob]

"There isn't room for a safe overtake, and you would encourage their manoeuvre?"

That is entirely a matter of opinion.
The head cam looks back, so how do you know precisely that prior to the oncoming van coming into view, the wagon did not have a safe opportunmity to pass?
The outcome of this occurence is good, because both cyclist and following wagon come to no harm. It is entirely conjecture wether it was a safe place to pass.

Because there was never a clear view of sufficient road to allow for the manoeuvre to have taken place.
It was only when the van hove into view that it became obvious that 'can't see anything coming' does not equate to 'there is nothing coming'

[arnsider]

As soon as the oncoming vehicle came into view, the wagon anchored on and aborted his manoeuvre.
That's not to say that to even attempt an overtake there was safe. I think the wagon deriver was winging it, but thankfully pulled up. Had our cyclist not stopped top remonstrate, the wagon would have tucked in behind and awaited a safer opportunity.
There is a case for bringing this to the attention of the police and Warburtons.
I agree that Warburtons insurers should either suspend that driver or debar him.
I doubt the police would prosecute.
I don't like the way people on here have turned on my viewpoint.
I don't like being talked down to. We are all on the same side here, just some of us are slower to villify people.

[horizon]

I don't like the way people on here have turned on my viewpoint.

You argued your point well and made your case. If you hadn't, there wouldn't have been the opportunity to explore the issues more fully. While I don't agree with you, yours is a valid viewpoint and needs to be aired. Shame the government leaves it to us to thrash these issues out.

arnsider: don't give up (I am sure you won't ). I for one value your input - this is a forum not North Korea.

[Bonefishblues]

Have I missed the debate about Warburtons' insurers taking action - I've just scanned and didn't see it.

[reohn2]

As soon as the oncoming vehicle came into view, the wagon anchored on and aborted his manoeuvre.
That's not to say that to even attempt an overtake there was safe. I think the wagon deriver was winging it, but thankfully pulled up. Had our cyclist not stopped top remonstrate, the wagon would have tucked in behind and awaited a safer opportunity.
There is a case for bringing this to the attention of the police and Warburtons.
I agree that Warburtons insurers should either suspend that driver or debar him.
I doubt the police would prosecute.
I don't like the way people on here have turned on my viewpoint.
I don't like being talked down to. We are all on the same side here, just some of us are slower to villify people.

It's because you posted this:-

The head cam looks back, so how do you know precisely that prior to the oncoming van coming into view, the wagon did not have a safe opportunmity to pass?
The outcome of this occurence is good, because both cyclist and following wagon come to no harm. It is entirely conjecture wether it was a safe place to pass.

[Vantage]

I don't like the way people on here have turned on my viewpoint.
I don't like being talked down to. We are all on the same side here, just some of us are slower to villify people.

arnsider, if I have offended you in my responses to your posts I apologise, it was not my intention.
I merely sought to correct you on what I personally thought were incorrect remarks and I am sure that was the intention of other forumites who may have questioned your posts.
Threads on any forum can turn a little 'hostile' at times but I have learned through bitter experience and through almost being chucked out myself, not to take it personally.
I hope you continue to add to this forum despite this thread going a little heated at times.

[arnsider]

That's OK and I appreciate the acknowlegement.

[jatindersangha]

I received a response from the police saying that they would investigate ... and a letter from the Group Transport Manager at Warburtons thanking me for reporting the incident to them so that they may investigate. They also said, that as the police were involved they wouldn't be able to let me know of any action they take with their driver.

--Jatinder

[reohn2]

I received a response from the police saying that they would investigate ... and a letter from the Group Transport Manager at Warburtons thanking me for reporting the incident to them so that they may investigate. They also said, that as the police were involved they wouldn't be able to let me know of any action they take with their driver.

--Jatinder

[pwa]

I received a response from the police saying that they would investigate ... and a letter from the Group Transport Manager at Warburtons thanking me for reporting the incident to them so that they may investigate. They also said, that as the police were involved they wouldn't be able to let me know of any action they take with their driver.

--Jatinder

A while back I mentioned that a van driver I know was having a disciplinary hearing after having had one incident too many. I have since heard that he has been redeployed by his employer and will no longer be driving. The message I take from this is that some employers, probably those with a high profile, do care about the actions of their drivers.

[Bonefishblues]

I received a response from the police saying that they would investigate ... and a letter from the Group Transport Manager at Warburtons thanking me for reporting the incident to them so that they may investigate. They also said, that as the police were involved they wouldn't be able to let me know of any action they take with their driver.

--Jatinder

A while back I mentioned that a van driver I know was having a disciplinary hearing after having had one incident too many. I have since heard that he has been redeployed by his employer and will no longer be driving. The message I take from this is that some employers, probably those with a high profile, do care about the actions of their drivers.

Indeed. One local firm told me a driver had previous driving issues and that they had placed him on a Final Written Warning as a result of my report.

[reohn2]

I received a response from the police saying that they would investigate ... and a letter from the Group Transport Manager at Warburtons thanking me for reporting the incident to them so that they may investigate. They also said, that as the police were involved they wouldn't be able to let me know of any action they take with their driver.

--Jatinder

A while back I mentioned that a van driver I know was having a disciplinary hearing after having had one incident too many. I have since heard that he has been redeployed by his employer and will no longer be driving. The message I take from this is that some employers, probably those with a high profile, do care about the actions of their drivers.

Indeed. One local firm told me a driver had previous driving issues and that they had placed him on a Final Written Warning as a result of my report.

Similarly so a bus driver with a local company who I had words with.
I was told by the transport manager and company owner,that after viewing the video footage on the bus he was driving,she would be giving him a piece of her mind and some retraining on his driving around cyclists.

[sapperadam]

Anybody who anticipates something like this going to court and therefore being a witness would always be well advised to keep a couple of things in mind. I've mentioned rag-loss and I'd be the first to admit it's easily said, harder to achieve. Faced with a strong prosecution case, a defence lawyer has only so many tactics available. Subtly needling a witness is one and if they already have a clue about fuse-length they may give it a go. Another is what I've described before as the Duracell Rabbit. Something quite irrelevant to the case but which distracts attention from the facts. A witness with a campaign agenda might be an example. Defence lawyer gets them going during cross-examination and is happy to let them bang on all morning. Prosecutor sits squirming and an interruption from the bench asking the witness to stick to the point is all they can hope for, but by then the damage has been done. And yes, I have sat and squirmed.

this made me smile. it also made me think of the 'salt of the earth' characters who flummox posh lawyers with plain answers!

Not a cycling case, but the one time I have been a witness in court, the Defence tried this on me - tried to make me angry, tried to make me look bad - fortunately, in that scenario, I am calm (unlike on the bike) and was able to articulate myself well. The Defence ended up making himself look stupid, and his client even more so.

I don't like this way of turning a judgement on someones manner, but I get that it's just the way it is and there will be little we can do to change it - I would probably have reacted in exactly the same manner as the OP did in that situation. And when you're in charge of a 40 tonne vehicle, the onus is very much on the driver to keep other road users safe from their vehicle. If something like that went to court, I would like to think I'm not going to lose my rag to the solicitor, it's not his fault that the driver was being an idiot, and I can calmly explain why the driver was being an idiot.

The last major interaction I had with a similar sized lorry (that wasn't just a bog standard overtake) was a lorry coming up a slip road from a roundabout where I had gone over the flyover. I could see that we were going to come together so I moved out to the centre of the carriageway (2 lanes) to have some wiggle room if he just came out early. As I did so, the driver waved at me and slowed down a little to allow me to pass quite safely, a wave and a nod back - I was most impressed - the shame is that I was impressed however, this is the standard that HGV drivers should be doing on a daily basis so shouldn't have had a need of a comment, yet the standard is so low that when something like this happens, we as cyclists are impressed. I actually waved again when we finally separated about five minutes later as I went down a different turning to him when the road split as he sat patiently behind me at each of the traffic lights we came to as well.

[jatindersangha]

Update:

It's been 6 weeks since I reported this incident, and 5 weeks since Warburtons wrote to me, and the police are still waiting for them to identify the driver.

--Jatinder