Horse riders hit by chelsea tractor on wrong side of road

[661-Pete]

Point of information: people about to suffer a stroke usually get no warning: one moment they feel perfectly OK, next moment they are taken seriously ill. I know this from the experience of two relatives who suffered strokes. This is different from a heart attack, in which the patient often gets chest pains or other discomfort for a while building up to the attack.

So it is conceivable that the driver was and felt in good health at the time of the collision, and maybe the stress following it brought on the attack. These things do happen.

Of course the illness is not a mitigating circumstance to excuse their standard of driving. I would hope it's a Careless Driving rap at the very least - especially with the video as testimony. Borderline Dangerous Driving? - I don't know, the distinction is very fine.

[Mistik-ka]

people about to suffer a stroke usually get no warning: one moment they feel perfectly OK, next moment they are taken seriously ill.

Based on the people who survived long enough to make it into the Cardiac and Intensive Care units where I worked for decades, there is little consistency in this. The first symptoms of a heart attack may be an overpowering chest tightness and acute shortness of breath which can come on in an instant. The symptoms of an "evolving stroke" may build up over minutes or even hours; sometimes the signs of one-sided facial droop or slurred speech may go completely unnoticed by the person having the stroke until someone else observes them.

[Postboxer]

I'm very surprised the horses aren't seriously injured, perhaps the one flying up in the air is jumping as much as it can to lessen the impact? I agree that the driver doesn't seem to try to avoid the collision, I'm not even sure whether they see the horses/corner and brake and lose control, veering across the road, or whether they aren't concentrating, veer onto the wrong side of the road, then steer into the corner then brake half way around it. In any case, it looks like the car should be able to brake more or steer more, it just doesn't seem to slow down much. Part of me maybe thinks they only saw the corner and didn't notice the horses, so they slowed til they were making the corner and were happy, otherwise they could have slowed more or steered more or tried to take the exit to the side road or decided to straighten up and go up the verge and through some road signs rather than hit the horses.

[nez]

Looks like a phone induced incident to me.

[Flinders]

It seemed to me that the car was well onto the wrong side of the road before the bend even started, and though I'm no expert, it didn't seem to be skidding. Had there been a car or other vehicle where the horses were, I think it would have hit them head-on regardless.

re the post on instincts, I had a skid as a learner driver; I was learning in a tiny, modern-for-the-time fiat, and took a corner in the same way when practicing in a moggy estate on a wet road, causing a skid to start. I had no time to think, and hadn't been trained on skids, but instinctively steered the correct way and corrected the skid. I think some people just have a feel for machinery and some don't. Maybe skid training might help some people, but in a crisis I think unless you had had a lot of training and kept it up, I'm not sure how much difference it would make. It might even encourage some people to do it on the public road just to show off- you know how daft some people can be.

[Flinders]

I missed the reference to the Daily Mail article. No excuses, paying insufficient attention. I've tried to make amends by finding the article.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... r-Ely.html

(Whatever anybody thinks about Mr Dacre's editorial line, the DM often has the most background information about local stories.)

A family member of the driver said he was now in hospital having suffered a suspected stroke.

I broke my own rule and went to that link. Then I thought- what about the comments? Basically, they are of the 'horses ought not to be on the roads' variety. I will stick to my rule in future, I think. What a poisonous place that is.

[Vorpal]

I've seen some evidence that skid training causes a rise in crash rate. The theory was that people who have had skid training may be overly confident in poor conditions.

I'll see if I can find it, when I get chance...

[meic]

If the people undergoing skid training were self selecting, I would expect them to have a higher accident rate. They have shown an enthusiasm for "fast driving" and placed an emphasis on the importance of handling skills.

These are the sorts of driver who prevent accidents from happening due to their superior handling skills on a monthly basis. Rather than the ones who read the road to avoid needing such skills.
Emergency services being an acceptable exception.

Though here an insurance company is offering a discount for having done a skid course.
http://www.skidcarscotland.co.uk/links.php

[[XAP]Bob]

I did a skid pan training session when I started doing 35k/year commuting.
It was actually my parents who bought it for me - and as it turns out I've used the skills on at least one occasion I can recall on the road (which I have related here before) and plenty when hooning it on the trike

[Bonefishblues]

If the people undergoing skid training were self selecting, I would expect them to have a higher accident rate. They have shown an enthusiasm for "fast driving" and placed an emphasis on the importance of handling skills.

I'm not sure those statements naturally follow.

[meic]

Deep down, you are.

[thirdcrank]

If the driver was having a stroke, that would be exactly the type of thing that might have affected their judgment. It may be that the driver did well in the circumstances to avoid a worse collision. On the subject of a prosecution, if a the driver is seriously affected as the result of a stroke occurring later, I'd regard a prosecution as probably not being in the public interest. There are possible issues about medical conditions known and undeclared etc., but that's "wait and see" in this case.

One thing that this unexpected twist illustrates is my regular explanation about drivers filmed/ photographed / witnessed and being the subject of a report to the police requiring an interview rather than the "no brainer - straight to court" approach.

Re the Daily Mail. The answer is not to bother looking at comments. I still think that the DM often has the most detailed reporting among the national dailies of relatively local events like this. I presume they must still have some sort of network of stringers. Unlike local papers' sites, you don't have to fight your way through all the ads and surveys.

[Bonefishblues]

Deep down, you are.

No, really, I'm not.

I watch driving videos on Youtube. I do that not because I want to tear-arse around, I do it because I want to be better.

I have done some training on a skidpan. I haven't needed to use it.

[Vorpal]

If the people undergoing skid training were self selecting, I would expect them to have a higher accident rate. They have shown an enthusiasm for "fast driving" and placed an emphasis on the importance of handling skills.

These are the sorts of driver who prevent accidents from happening due to their superior handling skills on a monthly basis. Rather than the ones who read the road to avoid needing such skills.
Emergency services being an acceptable exception.

Though here an insurance company is offering a discount for having done a skid course.
http://www.skidcarscotland.co.uk/links.php

The best evidence comes from Sweden and Norway, where such courses have been required in order to obtain a driving licence.

But there have also been some studies in the USA, where new drivers were offered the chance to take a course for free.

The Swedish roads authority have done a lot of work on figuring out which elements of training are beneficial, and which ones are detrimental.

DSA have a little summary with some references http://www.driveandstayalive.com/skid-p ... s-evasion/

[horizon]

Looks like a phone induced incident to me.

This was my first thought, possibly even texting. It would seem to explain most of what happened. The stroke may have occurred afterwards. Has this theory not gained any traction yet and is there a reason for this?