I like a good moan, but...
I like a good moan, but...
It does cause me upset when people refer to an example of really poor road behaviour by a pedal powered road user and include the word 'cyclist'.
Call me a snob if you will but one really doesn't deserve the moniker unless one can display suitable manners and discipline.
I mean, has the complainer not thought that the perpetrator could be someone who has been recently banned from driving for similar habits?
Almost certainly, I would argue.
Call me a snob if you will but one really doesn't deserve the moniker unless one can display suitable manners and discipline.
I mean, has the complainer not thought that the perpetrator could be someone who has been recently banned from driving for similar habits?
Almost certainly, I would argue.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
Re: I like a good moan, but...
Suitable manners and discipline is an admirable objective but please refrain from comparing people on bikes with those driving cars, vans, trucks etc - all the latter have a massive potential to kill others whilst the idiot on a bike is in reality only likely to have his own demise at stake. Vehicle drivers simply have to recognise that they have, by simple fact of getting in their vehicle, a greater responsibility than pedestrians and people on bikes. You could liken it to carrying a loaded gun (assuming that there is a need to have one in the first case, not unlike cars for many users in actual fact) handle it correctly and responsibly and it can be safe, put in in the hands of individuals who are not properly trained and do not recognise the enormity of the repercussions when they let the thing go off inadvertently and you have a potential disaster. Oh and then when they 'accidentally' discharge the firearm, let them off because they did not see the person standing at the end of the barrel. It beggars belief how juries can possibly reach the verdicts on vehicle drivers that we read of and then, on the occasions that convictions actually occur, judges Hand out derisory sentences such as a few points and a a few tens of pounds.
Re: I like a good moan, but...
please refrain from comparing people on bikes with those driving cars, vans, trucks etc - all the latter have a massive potential to kill others whilst the idiot on a bike is in reality only likely to have his own demise at stake
But what if a law abiding citizen in a vehicle has to take sudden and potentially disastrous action to avoid the miscreant on the bike?
Are they not then in charge of a deadly weapon unintentionally?
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
Re: I like a good moan, but...
With cyclists looking to divide and conquer cyclists, who needs the motoring lobby?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Re: I like a good moan, but...
peetee wrote:But what if a law abiding citizen in a vehicle has to take sudden and potentially disastrous action to avoid the miscreant on the bike?
Are they not then in charge of a deadly weapon unintentionally?
Sit in the driver's seat and you've placed yourself in charge of a potentially lethal weapon. You've made that choice and taken on that responsibility once you turn the key in the ignition.
High on a cocktail of flossy teacakes and marmalade
Re: I like a good moan, but...
"But what if a law abiding citizen in a vehicle has to take sudden and potentially disastrous action to avoid the miscreant on the bike?
Are they not then in charge of a deadly weapon unintentionally?"
Drivers are always intentionally in charge of a deadly weapon - it just has to be accepted as soon as you get in the driving seat.
Apologies for repeating Gaz's sentiments, crossed lines in the ether.
Are they not then in charge of a deadly weapon unintentionally?"
Drivers are always intentionally in charge of a deadly weapon - it just has to be accepted as soon as you get in the driving seat.
Apologies for repeating Gaz's sentiments, crossed lines in the ether.
Re: I like a good moan, but...
Barks wrote:Suitable manners and discipline is an admirable objective but please refrain from comparing people on bikes with those driving cars, vans, trucks etc - all the latter have a massive potential to kill others whilst the idiot on a bike is in reality only likely to have his own demise at stake.
Bad behaviour on the road is bad behaviour. Obviously a badly behaved car driver is more dangerous than a badly behaved cyclist in general.
However the badly behaved cyclist can create a dangerous situation - as I was made painfully aware, even a slow speed head on crash with another cyclist can be a dangerous experience.
At the Semaine federale a few years ago there was a fatality due to a head on between two cyclists - one taking the "wrong way" around a circuit.
Recently I was confronted by three youths on BSO's coming towards me. One was on my side of the road directly in my path - perhaps he was intending to intimidate me into taking avoiding action. There was a car behind me waiting to overtake. At the last moment the youth swung to the correct side of the road. The car driver had correctly held back but there could have been a serious situation if she had not done so.
Doubtless these youths will morph into car drivers.
So why should I not compare "people on bikes" with "those driving cars"?
Most cyclists are also car drivers and attitude is an extremely important part of road safety.
Re: I like a good moan, but...
We are all cyclists.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
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Re: I like a good moan, but...
mjr wrote:With cyclists looking to divide and conquer cyclists, who needs the motoring lobby?
Quite, so.
peetee wrote:I mean, has the complainer not thought that the perpetrator could be someone who has been recently banned from driving for similar habits?
Almost certainly, I would argue.
I often wonder how certain cyclists find themselves "having" to cycle. Being banned from driving IMO has rendered many a bad driver a bad cyclist. However I think once they have cycled, albeit possibly reluctantly, they may have a bit more empathy for cyclists in the future if and when they get their licences back.
Perhaps it can be said that a "bad" cyclist as I call it would be more danger to themselves overall than to other road users. I am just glad that they are not driving cars for the ban period. The issue, if it exists of banned drivers cycling dangerously could be tackled by banning them from cycling too, though I don't know how this could be enforced.
Re: I like a good moan, but...
Bad road users are bad road users, whatever their chosen mode of transport. I avoid dividing people up into "cyclists" and "motorists" because most of us are both. Prats and non-prats would be better.
Re: I like a good moan, but...
peetee wrote:It does cause me upset when people refer to an example of really poor road behaviour by a pedal powered road user and include the word 'cyclist'.
Call me a snob if you will but one really doesn't deserve the moniker unless one can display suitable manners and discipline.
You're a snob.
Someone on a bike is a cyclist,end of.
There are loonie,inconsiderate,lawbreaking people on bikes,they're all cyclists.
I mean, has the complainer not thought that the perpetrator could be someone who has been recently banned from driving for similar habits?
Almost certainly, I would argue.
How so?
If I've got this right you seem to be saying that anyone lawbreaking on a bike is almost certainly a banned driver?
You couldn't be more wrong.
Anyone driving a car is a motorist,that's a fact.
EDIT
Last edited by reohn2 on 19 Apr 2017, 5:25pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Re: I like a good moan, but...
You could argue it's a matter of the language people use, leading to subtle differences. When a car runs a red light, it's a car, when a bike runs a red light, it's a cyclist. It isn't the driver. People tend to say 'a car cut me up' or 'A car crashed into a shop', not, a driver crashed a car into a shop. People on bikes doing things wrong and it's the person riding it who is at fault, a person in a car does something wrong, somehow the car is at fault.
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Re: I like a good moan, but...
Yes pwa, wouldn't it be great if we could all just be human beings. Whatever differences we have would be offset by living and behaving around our common humanity.
In this ideal world the imperfections of our humanity may prompt us to attempt to make a division between who was a "prat" and who was a "non prat". I wonder who would judge.
For me, I am a cyclist and a human. I am NOT a motorist and I don't regard the term as part of my identity. I choose cycling because I believe the car culture that exists at present is harmful to humanity and unsustainable for the planet we live on.
If I am getting it right peetee, calling one's self a cyclist means owning a sense of professionalism in the role. Riding a bike in an inconsiderate way for example is not behaviour befitting the status of cyclist.
I disagree with reohn2 and although I may have never met you peetee, I don't think you are a snob and you have every right to express your opinion even if others may not agree. I don't think I am a subversive for having my views about car culture, any more than peetee is a snob for having their views.
In this ideal world the imperfections of our humanity may prompt us to attempt to make a division between who was a "prat" and who was a "non prat". I wonder who would judge.
For me, I am a cyclist and a human. I am NOT a motorist and I don't regard the term as part of my identity. I choose cycling because I believe the car culture that exists at present is harmful to humanity and unsustainable for the planet we live on.
If I am getting it right peetee, calling one's self a cyclist means owning a sense of professionalism in the role. Riding a bike in an inconsiderate way for example is not behaviour befitting the status of cyclist.
I disagree with reohn2 and although I may have never met you peetee, I don't think you are a snob and you have every right to express your opinion even if others may not agree. I don't think I am a subversive for having my views about car culture, any more than peetee is a snob for having their views.
Re: I like a good moan, but...
I agree with Postboxer, especially about how the press and police seem to think we've had autonomous cars for decades, and pwa that a prat is a prat is a prat.
Professionalism? In other words, only doing it because one is paid? I reject that view completely.
The status of cyclist? In the UK, that's a fifth-class road user? (After King Car, goods vehicles, walkers and horses.)
BakfietsUK wrote:If I am getting it right peetee, calling one's self a cyclist means owning a sense of professionalism in the role.
Professionalism? In other words, only doing it because one is paid? I reject that view completely.
BakfietsUK wrote:Riding a bike in an inconsiderate way for example is not behaviour befitting the status of cyclist.
The status of cyclist? In the UK, that's a fifth-class road user? (After King Car, goods vehicles, walkers and horses.)
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Re: I like a good moan, but...
How many banned drivers actually don't continue to drive anyway? I am sure a banned driver would rather risk getting caught again than suffer the indignity of having to ride a bike. And the chances are they would already have pleaded "necessity"/risk of job loss etc. to the judge and had the ban rescinded/suspended. And (too many sentences starting with And, I know) what are the chances of getting caught anyway - in Somerset, away from the major towns and cities, probably nil. In the last 5 years commuting I have probably seen a Police car twice a year on average.
Hope that is not too off topic
Hope that is not too off topic