A Quest

[reohn2]

I don't see the answer being velomobiles.

I try to see a positive future...... but I'm realistic enough to know that I'm dealing with mr and mrs average. Sadly as I've said before the future will be greener but will be as, if not more, congested with full on electric vehicles. As you say the velo isn't attractive enough to entice most people( also people don't like to put any effort into life, everything needs a motor from your toothbrush to lawnmower ). The early electric vehicles( think? ) and hybrids such as the insight etc were expensive and did not attract the public. Engineers have over that time since created hybrid power plants in the 100's of BHP and electric cars such as the tesla again with huge bhp. Its power and size that seem to attract joe public so we end off with large high powered vehicles matching todays petrol/diesels in size but running on greener fuel( well to some degree, it's not as green as we think ). Our consumer demands and resource use carry on increasing, with all the undeveloped countries catching up and wanting western lives then we have big issues to resolve.

The latest advert for our greener future is for this bloated monstrosity. But it's a must have ( not ).

https://www.toyota.co.uk/new-cars/c-hr/index.json

For many on here they don't feel belittled by walking or using a bus etc but for the masses the car is the be all and end all transport. It'll be hard to change that view when they beleive their energy use is green and sustainable.

Manuacturers are selling a product that appeals to the lowest common denominator,and in capitalist world that comes first.Its up to governments to stop that happening but governments are funded by capitalists,capitalism works on very short term profits,it has no place in the green economy,unless forced to,and as it owns governments it won't until societal structures change.the clock ticks but only a few are aware of its significance

[reohn2]

...a respectable speed up hill as well as on the flat,which means direct 2kw(?) power...

You forgot a zero 475kg of Twizzy with two 100kg passengers needs about 15kW to do 30mph up a 1 in 10. But you're correct that pedals won't help, even if Mark Cavendish is a passenger

TBH I just doubled Bob's figure,didn't give it any thought really

[reohn2]

You forget load carrying ability. The Quest can only take something like a touring bike can.
That isnt enough to compare with a car, where you just chuck everything in the back and passengers in with you through the side doors.

I was 1thinking purely as a second vehicle commuter and general run about,shopping etc,not a family vehicle

[reohn2]

But are we not getting confused here by the velo as a replacement for the car. It isn't but what it is is a simple way to transport a single person to work and back as most car journeys tend to be single occupancy on the commute. I expect most homes to have a car for those "family" occassions or load lugging but for different journeys involving only the individual the velo would work.

It's reducing the excess of cars on our roads and balancing out transport use from walking, cycling, velo to bus and train. Choosing the best tool for the time.

See my posts above.
Vorpal has touched on it by saying there'll need to be a completely different way of working,short commutes,working from home,more city dwelling(yuk),a ban on privately owned cars in cities with satellite hubs from which public transport and bikes are used,etc,etc.
The problem with that is the present way daily neccesary travel is structured,which AFAICS is bonkers and truth be known I suspect most people who have to do long 15mile+ commutes where average speeds are 20mph or less,do too,but governments such as we have in the UK don't help.

[[XAP]Bob]

...a respectable speed up hill as well as on the flat,which means direct 2kw(?) power...

You forgot a zero 475kg of Twizzy with two 100kg passengers needs about 15kW to do 30mph up a 1 in 10. But you're correct that pedals won't help, even if Mark Cavendish is a passenger

500kg??? That's the problem - stop engineering down from a car, and move 'up' from velo...

I reckon a single occupancy vehicle could come in at well under 100kg, probably closer to 50kg...
Now run that 2kW motor up a hill - bear in mind that you can easily improve on the quest aero by not having to accommodate a pedal stroke...


It's not a replacement for the jack of all trades, master of none car... but it is an excellent transport option.

[meic]

bear in mind that you can easily improve on the quest aero

Can you? I would have thought there was not much there left to be had.

[reohn2]

This could work as an alternative to the car for city/short trip use :- https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zbs6VqVASt4

[reohn2]

bear in mind that you can easily improve on the quest aero

Can you? I would have thought there was not much there left to be had.

Thinking from a short trip commuter perspective,if you dump the pedals and replace with 30mph capacity electric power with a decent range,add suspension,easy access and a few creature comforts you'd be getting there.
I know it ceases to be a velomobie as such but people are people and want convenience,reliability,comfort,etc,etc.

[meic]

It already has full suspension.
Easy access will probably mean more height and width, which means more drag and weight.

[reohn2]

It already has full suspension.
Easy access will probably mean more height and width, which means more drag and weight.

I was unaware of the suspension so we can tick that off
If the easy access means more height/width then to sell on any kind of scale it'll have to be.
Nerds like us would put with our backsides scraping the floor and access similar to a highsided canoe and lying down for that aero position but Joe public won't,in the same way they won't accept pedalling 30+kg to work and back,that's why they'll never be mainstream.
Don't get me wrong I think the Quest is a great piece engineering.... .......but it's strictly for the nerds

[squeaker]

I suspect that there is a sweet spot in there somewhere: much depends upon what hill climbing capability you want.
Probably the main practical constraint is the Construction and Use regs (or whatever they are called nowadays), as once you ditch the pedals, even if you limit the speed to 30mph max,you're into 50cc moped territory so need a helmet, insurance, registration, number plate, MoT test, etc.. The Sinclair Iris seemed to have that sort of option, albeit without suspension (!) and decent aerodynamics
The other big snag is affordability. Manufacturers love making BIG cars, 'cos they can charge BIG prices, despite the relatively small price increment wrt small cars. I can't see how you can make a profit selling hi-tech (which they'll need to be to keep the weight down) 'pods' when secondhand cars are so cheap to buy (and not that expensive to run over short distances). I'd love to be proved wrong though!

[old_windbag]

This could work as an alternative to the car for city/short trip use

I ws going to put forward something similar from years ago. Clarkson enjoyed this on top gear but it's price was too much( again not mass manufacturing ). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carver_%28automobile%29

The yamaha featured on jay leno's garage. Again it has good potential but we have to change the mindset of the public, I could drive one but the SUV obsessed may just laugh at it as novelty. Never thought I'd like Mr Leno until I watched his car program and found him to be an out and out engineering enthusiastic and very knowledgable. It was what top gear should have been covering all aspects of transport from steam cars to electric, he was very open minded and didn't poo poo a vehicle because it did 200mpg and had 5hp. His online motorcycle tests( old classics ) are also good. They should get him and james may on a show together.

I'd love to be proved wrong though!

Stick an "apple" logo on any half baked item and you'll sell it . Good marketing sells what many previous were unable to, and timing has a big part to play in that the public have to be ready to accept an idea. R2 alluded to similar in saying government has to play its part to make something attractive against the likes ofnissan jukes, quaschais, mitsubishi L200's etc. The big cars many like. Once the public get on board with a "novelty" concept theres no going back, it becomes normal.

Moving to smaller vehicles as the japanese had to for space( micro cars ) is good and would cut down out space requirements for parking and lane use but the advantage of the velo is in it's ability for us to be the animals we are and use those leg muscles as we would have done as hunter gatherers. We have two problems car overuse and over crowding, excess laziness in our general population( I know many who drive 1/2 mile journeys ). Encouraging more human powered motion, walking, cycling, velo'ing? would be beneficial I feel. On that I saw a 600lb woman on the tv last night and only in early 20's!

[reohn2]

Squeaker
I think you're right there is a sweet spot somewhere in there,and it has to be affordable and work well for the buyer.
IMO it won't work until certain restrictions on cars are in place such as I mentioned up thread,until then such vehicles will remain on the fringe.

[reohn2]

Windy
I think we're of the same mind.
Something needs doing but necessity being the mother of invention(or re-invention),it's just how long before the necessity penny drops before we all choke to death......

[old_windbag]

One other point I feel is important is freedom. Isn't that one of the pleasures of the bicycle and velo too, that we are using a transport that is easily fixable, it's simplicity very appealing. Even an e-assisted lightweight velo will get you home after the battery is flat, perhaps a little slower and with more effort, but you'll get home. No ties to charging posts and fears of charge dropping.

Super fast charging and a substantial charging infrastructure would help that, but we all know that may not be as extensive in remote areas. Perhaps I'm ageing but the knowledge I can fix most issues and keep moving is a nice feeling.