Are we riding too fast.

[Cugel]

I'm not a lad. That beside the point, technology does not change whether people are inconsiderate. There will *always* be a small minority of people who are inconsiderate. Some of them will find ways to be dangerously so.

I do not accept that it is a matter of degree between a gun and a mobility scooter. A gun is designed to harm people and animals. A mobility scooter is designed as a mode of transport......

Honestly, I'd rather just say that personal transport has to change radically. Maybe it should weigh no more than 50 kilos, or something like that. There's no point in hauling around 2 tonnes of metal and plastic to carry 20 kilos of groceries, or a couple of kids home.

Technology does change the degree to which the inconsiderate can apply their lack of consideration. In some cases it encourages even the normally considerate to be inconsiderate. I would argue that a car is like that.

Although a gun is primarily designed to kill and a mobility scooter is not, part of the design of a mobility scooter includes the potential to inflict damage to a human. The result of a design element of both is that they can inflict damage, the extent of which varies in degree. True, the worst mobility scooter damage in generally a "mere" broken ankle or leg. Yes, I have seen this in our village, along with a fair amount of bad bruising!

I too am saying with you that the design of personal transport has to change radically. Since it's generally weight and speed that kills and maims, these are the elements that need to be designed out. The question is, to what degree? I would be truly "radical". No cars, just bikes, including electric bikes, cargo bikes and other designs that may do a bit of damage to a human but will rarely kill or permanently maim millions and millions of us world wide, not to mention pollute people to death and create ugly tin litter everywhere.

Cugel, either a crazed radical or a reactionary luddite (you choose).

[Bonefishblues]

I'd prefer my right to choose my mode of transport for any given journey were not curtailed by reference to Worldwide statistics, which when aggregated mask very significant differences between countries, and particularly between more and less developed countries.

[pwa]

I'm not a lad. That beside the point, technology does not change whether people are inconsiderate. There will *always* be a small minority of people who are inconsiderate. Some of them will find ways to be dangerously so.

I do not accept that it is a matter of degree between a gun and a mobility scooter. A gun is designed to harm people and animals. A mobility scooter is designed as a mode of transport......

Honestly, I'd rather just say that personal transport has to change radically. Maybe it should weigh no more than 50 kilos, or something like that. There's no point in hauling around 2 tonnes of metal and plastic to carry 20 kilos of groceries, or a couple of kids home.

Technology does change the degree to which the inconsiderate can apply their lack of consideration. In some cases it encourages even the normally considerate to be inconsiderate. I would argue that a car is like that.

Although a gun is primarily designed to kill and a mobility scooter is not, part of the design of a mobility scooter includes the potential to inflict damage to a human. The result of a design element of both is that they can inflict damage, the extent of which varies in degree. True, the worst mobility scooter damage in generally a "mere" broken ankle or leg. Yes, I have seen this in our village, along with a fair amount of bad bruising!

I too am saying with you that the design of personal transport has to change radically. Since it's generally weight and speed that kills and maims, these are the elements that need to be designed out. The question is, to what degree? I would be truly "radical". No cars, just bikes, including electric bikes, cargo bikes and other designs that may do a bit of damage to a human but will rarely kill or permanently maim millions and millions of us world wide, not to mention pollute people to death and create ugly tin litter everywhere.

Cugel, either a crazed radical or a reactionary luddite (you choose).

Micturating into a Force Ten, perhaps.

[Cyril Haearn]

There is nothing new about one user group sometimes going a bit too fast for the safety and comfort of another user group. Wherever you have people using different modes of transport on the same path/road, or employing different levels of fitness and urgency to human powered transport, you will have clashes. Fast cyclists can clash with slower cyclists. Joggers can clash with walkers. Disabled people on mobility scooters can clash with pedestrians. The only possible answer to all this is to educate people to be a bit more considerate towards each other.

There is nothing inherently wrong with any of these modes of transport, it is only inconsiderate use that gives us problems. A couple of days ago I watched an elderly man on a four wheel mobility scooter rush along a narrow footpath at what looked to me to be about 8mph, very close to garden gates. I'm pretty sure he should have had his scooter on a setting that makes that speed impossible. I am not opposed to mobility scooters. I think they are a wonderful advance that has allowed people who might otherwise be housebound to get about. But just like other modes of transport they need to be used with a bit of consideration.

This is not one of the big issues facing society. It is a relatively minor nuisance that in extreme circumstances can cause injury. A bit of perspective is required, unless one wishes to waste one's life fretting about anything and everything that is not as one would wish it.

You are right, this is very familiar, motors have been going too fast for years, now cyclists can do the same. We know all about motor crime and danger. You think speed is a minor issue? You really believe in 'education'? Diversity of opinion is good, you have strange opinions about some laws mind and being "educated" after being caught speeding did not help apparently

There is plenty that can be done about this problem, we can see it getting bigger and bigger, in Germany it is even worse, there are so many parallels to motor crime
The economy for instance, producing and selling unnecessary things. Ebikes the new lifestyle tanks? There is a difference there unfortunately, the lifestyle tanks get used a lot

Don't you think you might be getting a bit obsessive about traffic speed, to the detriment of the rest of your life? Having a go at me for having been on a Speed Awareness course (information I gave weeks ago and which you will now use as ammunition whenever you want to imply that you are better than me) is a bit wide of the mark when we are talking about bicycles and e-bikes going too fast, or not. My post was about that, and so was the rest of this thread. And that is why I stressed the need for perspective. Get a grip!

No I am not obsessed, I have plenty of other interests, took a second storyteller course, going to some museums at the weekend, cinema, reading poetry, cycling of course, been offered a job in a literature archive (when I retire)
You chose to disclose being caught speeding of your own free will. I would be ashamed if I had been caught driving too fast, but it has never happened
I am proud that I was once stopped for going slowly, as I have reported here before

[Cyril Haearn]

Seem to think?

?

how fast do you go down hill(In mph)?

That all depends on conditions,traffic,road conditions,weather,etc.It's not an absolute for any given descent.

I think electric assistance is ok if it helps people to cycle who otherwise could not

That implies that your view of who should use elec assist bikes is a narrow one could you elaborate

Cycling too fast down hill is a big problem, even for standard bikes

Once again I'll invite you to define the term "big problem",does it endanger anyone,has there been many problems as a result,do you have statistical data to prove your claim or specific incidents proving it?

I much prefer riding up hill. I wish my bike could be fitted with a generator that governed the speed downhill to 30 kmh max and provided energy to make tea after

Your personal choice,which I don't share.

**Doubtless there will be more media reports about the e-bike menace, I shall translate and report back*

*
I hope you do,with some data to back up your claims

Motors going too fast is a big problem (anyone disagree?)

They can be but(and there always is one)it depends on what you call too fast,I refer you to a previous post were I claimed it wasn't speed but inappropriate speed ie 70mph on a motorway isn't a problem but it is in 30mph limit.
Story alert:- yesterday on the motorway I broke the speed limit by 10mph+,the circumstances were that I was in lane four at 70 overtaking 5 or six vehicles in lane 3,when my attention was drawn to a blues and twos motorcycle closing me down fast in my lane,to ensure the rider had clear passage I accelerated to possibly 85 temporarily,so I could pull over into lane 3 sooner rather than later that IMO is approriate speeding YVMD.

It might be easier if you split the quotes, several short ones
Please, please, quote figures, how fast do you cycle?

Going too fast downhill has been a big problem for me, down Bwlch Oerddrws one might reach 50 mph, I am very scared of riding down big hills

I would be very wary of exceeding the maximum limit as described, if the vehicles in lane 3 were being driven correctly (gaps!) it would have been better to move over

[Cyril Haearn]

I am looking out for the next media report about speeding criminals on ebikes

I will buy the paper, translate and report with facts and figures and speculations

Then we can form our own opinions

[reohn2]

Cyril Haearn
It ends here for me,thanks for the entertainment

[Cyril Haearn]

Cyril Haearn
It ends here for me,thanks for the entertainment

I asked several times how fast you go, you refuse to answer, can't be bothered asking why you don't answer

Just wondering how to interpret that, I think I shall assume you probably you go much too fast

Seems queer that you can/will not answer a simple question

I do not see anything entertaining about speeding crime

[ThePinkOne]

.....
My constructive suggestion: simpler lighter robust proper bikes that need less muscle energy, dynamos switched on downhill (reduces speed), to charge a battery to get uphill

...

I don't think that would work in practice. Have you done the maths?

Not 1:1, one would have to charge going down several hills to get up one I guess
Electric trains do it, bikes could do it too, maybe the system has not been invented yet

Electric trains dump the power generated from dynamic braking back into the OHLE. Or on a diesel electric unit/loco, into big resistors (usually on roof) which get hot and are cooled in the air. So the power generated from slowing down is only used on electric trains. Also, as the train slows, the braking shifts from dynamic to more use of friction.

Bit difficult to translate this to a bike unless you have a battery to capture the power, or maybe a big capacitor with all the potential that offers for being zapped.

TPO

[Cyril Haearn]

Good opportunity for an inventor, maybe an enclosed flywheel system

[Vorpal]

At the moment, systems that generate energy from braking and that sort of thing are too heavy for pedal bikes, although it is available for motor bikes and motor scooters. I'm sure that electric bikes won't be far behind.

[Grandad]

I'm pretty sure that one of our club members said that their e-bike has this facility. Will double check when we next meet.

[pwa]

My highest ever speed on a bike was about 50mph on a long straight descent somewhere in the west of Wales. Good road surface, no traffic and excellent conditions. The only thing that stopped me going a bit faster was the Carradice SQR bag making the bike feel a bit skittish at speed. If I could have gone a bit faster, with confidence, I would have. I'd do it tomorrow if the opportunity arose. I think I reached similar speeds descending Mont Ventoux a couple of years ago, and apart from tired forearms from braking I loved it. In the right circumstances a fast descent can be exhilarating without putting anyone else at risk, and risk to myself is nobody else's concern. I don't believe my cycling has ever posed a significant risk to another person.

[Username]

You are right, this is very familiar, motors have been going too fast for years, now cyclists can do the same. We know all about motor crime and danger. You think speed is a minor issue? You really believe in 'education'? Diversity of opinion is good, you have strange opinions about some laws mind and being "educated" after being caught speeding did not help apparently

There is plenty that can be done about this problem, we can see it getting bigger and bigger, in Germany it is even worse, there are so many parallels to motor crime
The economy for instance, producing and selling unnecessary things. Ebikes the new lifestyle tanks? There is a difference there unfortunately, the lifestyle tanks get used a lot

Don't you think you might be getting a bit obsessive about traffic speed, to the detriment of the rest of your life? Having a go at me for having been on a Speed Awareness course (information I gave weeks ago and which you will now use as ammunition whenever you want to imply that you are better than me) is a bit wide of the mark when we are talking about bicycles and e-bikes going too fast, or not. My post was about that, and so was the rest of this thread. And that is why I stressed the need for perspective. Get a grip!

No I am not obsessed, I have plenty of other interests, took a second storyteller course, going to some museums at the weekend, cinema, reading poetry, cycling of course, been offered a job in a literature archive (when I retire)
You chose to disclose being caught speeding of your own free will. I would be ashamed if I had been caught driving too fast, but it has never happened
I am proud that I was once stopped for going slowly, as I have reported here before

I got caught speeding once, unfortunately the awareness course wasnt offered coz I was above the threshold. I even once deliberately went past a mobile speed cam at 39mph where the speed limit was 30. Didnt get caught that time because I was cycling. It was also a location where the speed limit used to be 40. Strengthens my belief that speed limits are [rude word removed]. How is it safe to drive 40mph one day, and dangerous to the point of being fined on another day. Dont answer that question its purely rhetorical.

I dont think its about climate change either. There are days when I have not driven at all and the weather was still wet.

[Cyril Haearn]

Scaremongering, I'm sure.

Germany, like other countries where ebikes have become popular have a minority of rindividuals who modify their bikes so that they can go faster than legally allowed for an ebike, but still use them on facilities designed for pedal cycles.

Of course, somebody has to make a big deal out if it, but I'm sure we'd have heard if thousands of people were dying form being run over or crashing ebikes, the way they do with motor vehicles.

Maybe not thousands yet, maybe "only" hundreds or dozens, maybe someone close to me or you

We can see this problem developing

Translated report with police comments follows soon. Not so sure about the cops over here mind, they reported that a child not injured in an "accident" had a Grauniad Angel