Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

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pete75
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby pete75 » 18 Dec 2018, 11:00pm

The utility cyclist wrote:not murdered, punished for one of the worst crimes a human being can do, absolute disregard for another human beings life, punished that removes that threat to society, punished to such an extent it might actually make others think just that little bit more about breaking the law to an extent that we know kills hundreds of innocent people every year!
Why should the majority live in fear of these types of people every single day of our lives, it's not civilised at all!


I don't think the majority do live in fear of them every single day of their lives. The paranoid in society are a quite small minority.

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RickH
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby RickH » 19 Dec 2018, 12:06am

The death by careless driving/ death by dangerous driving is much like the difference between manslaughter & murder. What was the intent? Was there an intent, or at least a deliberate disregard, to safety?

The guy responsible seems to have been willing to admit to the lesser charge ("manslaughter"/causing death by careless driving) rather than having to go through a full trial (with the risk, to the prosecution, that they are found not guilty of the more serious charge ("murder"/causing death by dangerous driving). The defendant (& their legal advice) have to weigh up whether admitting to a lesser charge (& its consequences) is better than fighting (pleading "not guilty") & the prosecution has to decide whether admission on a lesser charge is worth the risk of carrying on at the risk of a "not guilty" of all charges.

An admission of guilt to a lesser charge means a guaranteed conviction. A trial by jury means no certain outcome for the prosecution.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby Bonefishblues » 19 Dec 2018, 12:09am

RickH wrote:The death by careless driving/ death by dangerous driving is much like the difference between manslaughter & murder. What was the intent? Was there an intent, or at least a deliberate disregard, to safety?

The guy responsible seems to have been willing to admit to the lesser charge ("manslaughter"/causing death by careless driving) rather than having to go through a full trial (with the risk, to the prosecution, that they are found not guilty of the more serious charge ("murder"/causing death by dangerous driving). The defendant (& their legal advice) have to weigh up whether admitting to a lesser charge (& its consequences) is better than fighting (pleading "not guilty") & the prosecution has to decide whether admission on a lesser charge is worth the risk of carrying on at the risk of a "not guilty" of all charges.

An admission of guilt to a lesser charge means a guaranteed conviction. A trial by jury means no certain outcome for the prosecution.

I think that's a good summary. I also think that the two terms, particularly 'careless', are emotive in themselves.

Barks
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby Barks » 19 Dec 2018, 8:35am

So
An admission of guilt to a lesser charge means a guaranteed conviction. A trial by jury means no certain outcome for the prosecution.
- now that is out of the way, are the CPS able to still bring a Dangerous Driving prosecution if they believe the evidence is sufficiently strong to give a realistic prospect of conviction? But they appear to see the admission of the lower charge asa ‘success’ whereas the bereaved family see this as the perpetrator evading justice, or does the admission of Careless Driving legally stop any further prosecution?

thirdcrank
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby thirdcrank » 19 Dec 2018, 8:47am

Barks wrote:...- now that is out of the way, are the CPS able not to still bring a DAngerous Driving prosecution if they believe the evidence is sufficiently strong to give a realistic prospect of conviction. But they appear to see the admission of the lower charge asa ‘success’ whereas the bereaved family see this as the perpetrator evading justice. Or does the admission of Careless Driving legally stop any further prosecution?


In circumstances such as these, when a defendant pleads not guilty to the charge but indicates a willingness to plead guilty to a lesser charge, then the prosecution has to make a decision whether or not to accept that or pursue the more serious charge. In normal circumstances, that's it. They can't work on the basis that the guilty plea to the lesser charge is in the bag so they can then safely run the more serious charge.

FWIW, this sort of thing happens all the time, especially with things like reducing a murder charge to manslaughter or reducing section 18 GBH so section 20. It's also worth remembering that the offence of causing death by careless driving is a relatively recent addition and when it was being considered before that, there were predictions that this is exactly what would happen.
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PS. This from the Daily Mail seems to be the most comprehensive account of the latest court hearing, when sentencing was deferred to 31 January 2019. Here's the judge's parting shot
Judge Rhys Rowlands said Rosney's guilty plea would attract some credit when he was being sentenced but 'nowhere near as much' as it would have if it had been made when he was on trial earlier this year.

He said all sentencing options, including custody, would be open to him when Rosney was sentenced.

The joiner was disqualified from driving and released on bail until his sentencing on January 31.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... other.html

reohn2
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby reohn2 » 19 Dec 2018, 9:51am

The Utility Cyclist.
No point continuing the debate with you on capital punishment,that's my final solution.
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I cycle therefore I am.

pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby pete75 » 19 Dec 2018, 10:24am

reohn2 wrote:The Utility Cyclist.
No point continuing the debate with you on capital punishment,that's my final solution.


Choosing to use that infamous phrase says much about your views.

reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby reohn2 » 19 Dec 2018, 10:34am

pete75 wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The Utility Cyclist.
No point continuing the debate with you on capital punishment,that's my final solution.


Choosing to use that infamous phrase says much about your views.

I haven't a clue what you mean :wink:
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I cycle therefore I am.

landsurfer
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Location: Rotherham

Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby landsurfer » 19 Dec 2018, 10:36am

reohn2 wrote:
pete75 wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The Utility Cyclist.
No point continuing the debate with you on capital punishment,that's my final solution.


Choosing to use that infamous phrase says much about your views.

I haven't a clue what you mean :wink:


!+1 :)
The Road Goes On Forever ...

pwa
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby pwa » 31 Jan 2019, 11:55am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47071273
Sentence.

I like to think that if I ever did anything wrong that harmed an innocent person I would have the heart to say sorry and admit to my error at the first opportunity. As Boardman implies, you can't relate to the driver as he didn't do that.

reohn2
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby reohn2 » 31 Jan 2019, 1:33pm

That sentence is a disgrace :twisted:
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I cycle therefore I am.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby Bonefishblues » 31 Jan 2019, 2:58pm

@pwa so do I, but tbh one would never know until in that position - I'm focusing on never ever being in it.

@R2 but enough to ruin his life, as he 'carelessly' took another.

thirdcrank
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby thirdcrank » 31 Jan 2019, 3:41pm

Admirable dignity by Chris Boardman in the vid in the link to the BBC

reohn2
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby reohn2 » 31 Jan 2019, 4:15pm

thirdcrank wrote:Admirable dignity by Chris Boardman in the vid in the link to the BBC

Quite!
A hallmark of the man IMHO.
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I cycle therefore I am.

reohn2
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby reohn2 » 31 Jan 2019, 4:21pm

Bonefishblues wrote:........@R2 but enough to ruin his life, as he 'carelessly' took another.

In 18months he'll be driving again with no questions asked,no driving test needed to proof that he's capable of not being 'careless' again.
Meanwhile the Boardman family will never see Carol Boardman again!
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I cycle therefore I am.