Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

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ianrobo
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby ianrobo » 1 Feb 2019, 12:47pm

I get why CB wants to remain calm but the likes of the Aliston case he did not and basically got a law change, sometimes showing anger is the correct way to go. If you kill someone in a car for either careless or dangerous driving that should be jail and classed as manslaughter

brynpoeth
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby brynpoeth » 1 Feb 2019, 4:56pm

His dad was a good tester, got in the top ten of the BBAR 1973
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pwa
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby pwa » 3 Feb 2019, 9:43am

ianrobo wrote:I get why CB wants to remain calm but the likes of the Aliston case he did not and basically got a law change, sometimes showing anger is the correct way to go. If you kill someone in a car for either careless or dangerous driving that should be jail and classed as manslaughter

Perhaps he is being particularly careful to remain calm given that this is his own family and it would be too easy for him to lose control and allow this to dominate family life for years to come. He has other family members to consider. And he must want to remain effective by seeming rational and reasoned, rather than coming across as just emotional. I think he is getting it about right, which is something to be admired under the circumstances.

peetee
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby peetee » 3 Feb 2019, 10:27am

pwa wrote: Perhaps he is being particularly careful to remain calm given that this is his own family and it would be too easy for him to lose control and allow this to dominate family life for years to come. He has other family members to consider. And he must want to remain effective by seeming rational and reasoned, rather than coming across as just emotional. I think he is getting it about right, which is something to be admired under the circumstances.


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reohn2
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby reohn2 » 3 Feb 2019, 10:34am

ianrobo wrote:if you cause death by careless or dangerous driving then why is it so unreasonable to ban for life for driving ? That’s is how it seems to me ?

But a life ban closes the door on rehabilitation,a one off serious offence such as this that included a ban for life could lead to more culprits leaving the scene as they'd have nothing to loose.
Rehabilitation should go hand in hand with punishment IMHO,I would much rather have seen a lengthy driving ban -IMO 18months is a disgrace in the circumstances- with a resitting of the driving test to prove ability,followed by a long probationary period of more than 2 years,which if broken invokes a statutory 2 year ban followed by another resitting of the driving test.
Such a sentence would give an offender a second chance and period of reflection and observed driving within the law which then stands a chance of becoming ingrained in the culprit.
Should they prove to be unable to drive within the law after that,a long jail sentence and a lifetime ban would then be automatic.

My 2d's worth
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thirdcrank
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby thirdcrank » 3 Feb 2019, 10:48am

ianrobo wrote:I get why CB wants to remain calm but the likes of the Aliston case he did not and basically got a law change, sometimes showing anger is the correct way to go. If you kill someone in a car for either careless or dangerous driving that should be jail and classed as manslaughter


I'm not completely clear what you are saying, but one interpretation is that Matthew Briggs somehow showed anger. My memory is that he seemed dignified in much the same way as Chris Boardman here. He made a point shared by many who commented on here: that the furious cycling offence was not an appropriate charge in such cases. The difference is that he called for an offence of "causing death by dangerous cycling" rather than taking no action.

ianrobo
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby ianrobo » 3 Feb 2019, 2:51pm

thirdcrank wrote:
ianrobo wrote:I get why CB wants to remain calm but the likes of the Aliston case he did not and basically got a law change, sometimes showing anger is the correct way to go. If you kill someone in a car for either careless or dangerous driving that should be jail and classed as manslaughter


I'm not completely clear what you are saying, but one interpretation is that Matthew Briggs somehow showed anger. My memory is that he seemed dignified in much the same way as Chris Boardman here. He made a point shared by many who commented on here: that the furious cycling offence was not an appropriate charge in such cases. The difference is that he called for an offence of "causing death by dangerous cycling" rather than taking no action.


Briggs showed anger in the way likes of the Daily Mail would appreciate ... he played them perfectly and their hatred of us ... anger does not mean ranting and raving

ianrobo
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby ianrobo » 3 Feb 2019, 2:53pm

reohn2 wrote:
ianrobo wrote:if you cause death by careless or dangerous driving then why is it so unreasonable to ban for life for driving ? That’s is how it seems to me ?

But a life ban closes the door on rehabilitation,a one off serious offence such as this that included a ban for life could lead to more culprits leaving the scene as they'd have nothing to loose.
Rehabilitation should go hand in hand with punishment IMHO,I would much rather have seen a lengthy driving ban -IMO 18months is a disgrace in the circumstances- with a resitting of the driving test to prove ability,followed by a long probationary period of more than 2 years,which if broken invokes a statutory 2 year ban followed by another resitting of the driving test.
Such a sentence would give an offender a second chance and period of reflection and observed driving within the law which then stands a chance of becoming ingrained in the culprit.
Should they prove to be unable to drive within the law after that,a long jail sentence and a lifetime ban would then be automatic.

My 2d's worth


That’s all fine if we had proper enforcement of bans, which of course we do not. Driving is a privilege and not a right and killing someone because of your negligence should receive for sure longer bans than now and for real serious a life ban

reohn2
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby reohn2 » 3 Feb 2019, 3:02pm

ianrobo wrote:That’s all fine if we had proper enforcement of bans, which of course we do not. Driving is a privilege and not a right and killing someone because of your negligence should receive for sure longer bans than now and for real serious a life ban

Whilst I agree with your point about law enforcement,you appear to contradict yourself by mentioning lifetime bans.

I'm not saying lifetime driving bans shouldn't be handed down for some offences and or serial offenders,but not for one off serious offences,as I posted previously it leaves no room for rehabilitation.
And yes we do have a real problem with law enforcement and creative penalties for less serious offences along with short bans for some less serious.
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ianrobo
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby ianrobo » 3 Feb 2019, 3:56pm

Using modern tech there are better ways but the overall problem is that these offences are not taken seriously. That goes from the sense of entitlement sone have to weak politicians

reohn2
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby reohn2 » 3 Feb 2019, 4:13pm

ianrobo wrote:Using modern tech there are better ways but the overall problem is that these offences are not taken seriously. That goes from the sense of entitlement sone have to weak politicians

+1
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millimole
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby millimole » 3 Feb 2019, 4:14pm

I'd start the conversation with automatic mandatory driving tests after a ban of n days - currently it at the discretion of the court
(n might equal 30 in my opinion, but that might encourage courts to give 28 day bans)
Equally it ought to be the case that driving bans start once a custodial sentence has been completed (I'm not sure that's currently the case)

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Barks
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby Barks » 3 Feb 2019, 5:57pm

My thoughts are that all serious driving offences including excessive speeding should come with an automatic ban and a requirement to sit a test within 6 months of the ban end - the problem though is how to ensure the bans are observed, we already have a serious problem with this and those driving without insurance or a licence. The better way is to ensure compliance with required driving standards from the outset - black boxes in every car would be a very easy step to record how well or poorly they are driven with insurance comoanies using the data to adjust premiums (with illegal transgressions automatically attracting FPNs and court proceedings if bad enough). It would also help to establish just what was going on before incidents as with aircraft Link to some sort of log on process for different drivers so people can’t claim they weren’t driving and we might start to see improvement across the board.

Ivor Tingting
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby Ivor Tingting » 4 Feb 2019, 4:29pm

Rather than waste time whinging on your keyboards and spouting hot air why not complain to the Attorney General's Office regarding the leniency of Mr Rosney's sentence? I did. If you really are concerned about road safety and dangerous killer drivers being given overly lenient sentences then you have a duty to do this. You only have 28 days from the date of sentencing to do so, so get a move on. The more who complain the better.
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