Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

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brynpoeth
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Re: So what will he be charged with?

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Dec 2018, 8:04pm

landsurfer wrote:This is a tricky one ... if i fell of my bike into the path of a following car ... how would they be to blame
..

The car driver would be guilty, following too closely
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landsurfer
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Re: So what will he be charged with?

Postby landsurfer » 17 Dec 2018, 9:22pm

brynpoeth wrote:The car driver would be guilty, following too closely


What is the legal definition of "Too Closely" ...
Thats the problem with Law and Process ...
Definitions are required ..
In this sad case the driver may have pleaded guilty ( having "Taken Advice" ) for sentencing reasons or due to previous events ...
What is the legal definition of "Following too close" to a cyclist on the road.
Ulster will fight, and Ulster will be right ... Carson.
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brynpoeth
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Re: So what will he be charged with?

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Dec 2018, 9:25pm

landsurfer wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:The car driver would be guilty, following too closely


What is the legal definition of "Too Closely" ...
Thats the problem with Law and Process ...
Definitions are required ..
In this sad case the driver has pleaded guilty for sentencing reasons or due to previous events ... or just to get off with a light sentence ...
What is the legal definition of "Following too close" to a cyclist on the road.

Dunno what the legal definition is but when driving I keep back to avoid risking hitting the cyclist or vehicle in front if she stops 'suddenly'
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reohn2
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Re: So what will he be charged with?

Postby reohn2 » 17 Dec 2018, 9:27pm

landsurfer wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:The car driver would be guilty, following too closely


What is the legal definition of "Too Closely" ...
Thats the problem with Law and Process ...
Definitions are required ..
In this sad case the driver may have pleaded guilty ( having "Taken Advice" ) for sentencing reasons or due to previous events ...
What is the legal definition of "Following too close" to a cyclist on the road.

So close that you can't stop in time to prevent a collision
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landsurfer
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Re: So what will he be charged with?

Postby landsurfer » 17 Dec 2018, 9:31pm

reohn2 wrote:So close that you can't stop in time to prevent a collision

And i totally agree with you ....
I always leave a vehicle width at least between me and a cyclist ..
If i cant i don't overtake, until the cyclist is in a place of safety ....
And i'm not being pedantic ... there must be a definition of too close otherwise we are doomed to be hit by cars until there are non of us left
Ulster will fight, and Ulster will be right ... Carson.
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mjr
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Re: So what will he be charged with?

Postby mjr » 17 Dec 2018, 9:41pm

landsurfer wrote:
reohn2 wrote:So close that you can't stop in time to prevent a collision

And i totally agree with you ....
I always leave a vehicle width at least between me and a cyclist ..
If i cant i don't overtake, until the cyclist is in a place of safety ....
And i'm not being pedantic ... there must be a definition of too close otherwise we are doomed to be hit by cars until there are non of us left

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Bonefishblues
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Re: So what will he be charged with?

Postby Bonefishblues » 17 Dec 2018, 9:42pm

reohn2 wrote:
landsurfer wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:The car driver would be guilty, following too closely


What is the legal definition of "Too Closely" ...
Thats the problem with Law and Process ...
Definitions are required ..
In this sad case the driver may have pleaded guilty ( having "Taken Advice" ) for sentencing reasons or due to previous events ...
What is the legal definition of "Following too close" to a cyclist on the road.

So close that you can't stop in time to prevent a collision

Here's a chap who was sent to prison. He made an error, hit nobody, but a motorcyclist coming around a bend couldn't stop in time and hit him, suffering serious injury.

I have very mixed feelings about it tbh, but I suppose it serves to illustrate that things aren't as black and white as we'd like them to be. I think back to the journalist and the pickup around the corner and other cases we've discussed.

Worth a read. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/top ... 42266&i=40

landsurfer
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Re: So what will he be charged with?

Postby landsurfer » 17 Dec 2018, 9:57pm

brynpoeth wrote:
Dunno what the legal definition is but when driving I keep back to avoid risking hitting the cyclist or vehicle in front if she stops 'suddenly'


Possibly you may want to take the sex / gender out of that post .... unless its troll time at "brynpoeth towers".
Ulster will fight, and Ulster will be right ... Carson.
The Road Goes On Forever ...

brynpoeth
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Re: So what will he be charged with?

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Dec 2018, 10:11pm

landsurfer wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:
Dunno what the legal definition is but when driving I keep back to avoid risking hitting the cyclist or vehicle in front if she stops 'suddenly'


Possibly you may want to take the sex / gender out of that post .... unless its troll time at "brynpoeth towers".

Not trolling, I try to use the female word as standard, actually the cyclist is a she/he and the vehicle is an it, could have expressed it differently :?
Thanks for getting me thinking
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brynpoeth
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Re: So what will he be charged with?

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Dec 2018, 10:25pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
landsurfer wrote:
What is the legal definition of "Too Closely" ...
Thats the problem with Law and Process ...
Definitions are required ..
In this sad case the driver may have pleaded guilty ( having "Taken Advice" ) for sentencing reasons or due to previous events ...
What is the legal definition of "Following too close" to a cyclist on the road.

So close that you can't stop in time to prevent a collision

Here's a chap who was sent to prison. He made an error, hit nobody, but a motorcyclist coming around a bend couldn't stop in time and hit him, suffering serious injury.

I have very mixed feelings about it tbh, but I suppose it serves to illustrate that things aren't as black and white as we'd like them to be. I think back to the journalist and the pickup around the corner and other cases we've discussed.

Worth a read. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/top ... 42266&i=40

I read the report of going to prison
Would really like to read a police or media report, the incident might be described quite differently there with things not mentioned by the driver. Did s/he appeal?
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Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
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Bonefishblues
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Re: So what will he be charged with?

Postby Bonefishblues » 17 Dec 2018, 10:36pm

brynpoeth wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
reohn2 wrote:So close that you can't stop in time to prevent a collision

Here's a chap who was sent to prison. He made an error, hit nobody, but a motorcyclist coming around a bend couldn't stop in time and hit him, suffering serious injury.

I have very mixed feelings about it tbh, but I suppose it serves to illustrate that things aren't as black and white as we'd like them to be. I think back to the journalist and the pickup around the corner and other cases we've discussed.

Worth a read. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/top ... 42266&i=40

I read the report of going to prison
Would really like to read a police or media report, the incident might be described quite differently there with things not mentioned by the driver. Did s/he appeal?

No, he admitted guilt immediately and pleaded guilty at the earliest opportunity.

Yet by some measures, including yours IIRC from a post in the Chris Harris thread, the biker was to blame for failing to ride with the ability to stop in the distance he could see to be clear. As I say, not black and white by any means.

ETA
My recollection was correct.


Re: Driving to stop in distance you can see
Postby brynpoeth » 23 Nov 2018, 6:06pm

I think the pickup driver should not have been punished
Obviously the sleb was going too fast

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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby MikeF » 17 Dec 2018, 11:02pm

Mrs Boardman, a keen cyclist, died after she fell off her bike and Rosney drove over her at a roundabout on 16 July 2016.
It's very unusual for cyclists to simply "fall off" their bike - especially experienced ones in mid summer. She might have been knocked off her bike or lost her balance trying to swerve, brake or colliding etc, but this sounds like victim blaming.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

Bonefishblues
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Re: Carol Boardman death - case sent for trial

Postby Bonefishblues » 17 Dec 2018, 11:05pm

MikeF wrote:
Mrs Boardman, a keen cyclist, died after she fell off her bike and Rosney drove over her at a roundabout on 16 July 2016.
It's very unusual for cyclists to simply "fall off" their bike - especially experienced ones in mid summer. She might have been knocked off her bike or lost her balance trying to swerve, brake or colliding etc, but this sounds like victim blaming.

I read she was knocked from her bike by a collision with a pickup, or am I mistaken.

reohn2
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Re: So what will he be charged with?

Postby reohn2 » 17 Dec 2018, 11:09pm

landsurfer wrote:
reohn2 wrote:So close that you can't stop in time to prevent a collision

And i totally agree with you ....
I always leave a vehicle width at least between me and a cyclist ..
If i cant i don't overtake, until the cyclist is in a place of safety ....
And i'm not being pedantic ... there must be a definition of too close otherwise we are doomed to be hit by cars until there are non of us left

Whenever I'm overtaken too closely by motor vehicles and get the chance to remonstrate with them,which is more often than one might think due to TL's and traffic jams within the next half mile or even less,the first thing I say to the driver is "if either one of us had made a mistake back there,I would've been in hospital or worse and you'd have had no driving licence".
The response is sometimes derisory but mostly it's met with an apology or no reply at all.
The thing is that too many drivers just don't see the consequences of their actions,end of.They just don't see a human being before them,rather just a thin thing on the road in front a little to the left that needs overtaking asap,and no one is doing anything of significance to dispel their erroneous outlook on human beings that choose to cycle.
That is why occasionally all the fatal ingredients come together at once and someone loses a mother,father,brother,sister or child and the grief and pain lasts forever.
The erroneous belief by drivers that everything will be OK this time is reinforced every time a driver overtakes a cyclist too closely and doesn't make contact.

EDITED for typos.
Last edited by reohn2 on 17 Dec 2018, 11:34pm, edited 3 times in total.
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landsurfer
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Re: So what will he be charged with?

Postby landsurfer » 17 Dec 2018, 11:11pm

reohn2 wrote:Whenever I'm overtaken too closely by motor vehicles and get the chance to remonstrate with them,which is more often than one might think due to TL's and traffic jams within the next half mile or less,the first thing I say to the driver is "if either one of us had made a mistake back there,I would've been in hospital or worse and you'd have had no driving licence".
The response is sometimes derisory but mostly it's met with an apology or no reply at all.
The thing is that too many drivers just don't see the consequences of their actions,end of.They just don't see a human being before them,rather just a thin thing on the road in front a like to the left that needs overtaking asap,and no one is doing anything of significance to dispel their erroneous outlook on human beings that choose to cycle.
That is why occasionally all the fatal ingredients come together at once and someone loses a mother,father,brother,sister or child and the grief lasts forever.
The erroneous belief by drivers that everything will be OK this time is reinforced every time a driver overtakes a cyclist too closely and doesn't make contact.


+1 .. A series of unfortunate events :(
Ulster will fight, and Ulster will be right ... Carson.
The Road Goes On Forever ...