Common Assault

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Common Assault

Postby Tangled Metal » 19 Oct 2017, 10:40am

If I read things correctly the miscreant denied any offence = defensive action and instinctive I reckon.

He was then offered a caution = no fine, no court action = good result and he gets out the door quicker. He just has to take the chance on admitting the offence.

It is possible the miscreant only admits an offence when it's too his advantage and is a less serious result for him. In his opinion of course, such ppl probably aren't aware of its money term effects that could be possible.

There was no admission until the caution was given AFAIK. It's a short cut off kinds. It allows police to close it nice and neatly. If no admission because of the caution offered they'd have to proceed with an action or drop it. The former is paperwork and other boring things. The latter could result in a motivated "victim" putting in a complaint and being rather active about it.

TBH I feel that caution is a good result overall. He's got an assault caution on him so it could help another victim get further justice. The fact it's two cautions (two offences) is good too. It seems the police took both offences seriously which is almost half the battle. A win there I think.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Common Assault

Postby PDQ Mobile » 19 Oct 2017, 6:47pm

This is not the first time you have had issues?
It is my option that you cycle too far out in the road.
You seem to cycle right in the middle of the lane all the time.
On such a road a motorcycle should be able to pass you at any time with ease.
Even after you stop it is clear that cars cannot pass you.
Now the push is not right but actually you hardly wobble so it was not so hard. I think you are at least in part to blame because your road positioning is poor. I think the motorcyclist was trying to tell you that.
Sorry but that's how I see it.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Common Assault

Postby Bonefishblues » 19 Oct 2017, 7:02pm

Did you stop in the roadway on a bend and approach the silver Audi immediately after you stopped the video sequence?

BakfietsUK
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Re: Common Assault

Postby BakfietsUK » 19 Oct 2017, 7:44pm

PDQ Mobile are you saying that the offenders behaviour was justified. I would be careful about your answer and have a jolly good think about what you might imply.

Just to make my opinion clear. There can be no justification for the violence that seemed to be evident in this case. Even if this poster has made an error in their road positioning, there is absolutely no reason to resort to violence to "correct" their behaviour. Violence is NEVER justified and it's clear to me that in this case the Police were in agreement to who was occupying the moral low ground. If you want to stand as judge and jury on the roads, you'll always be attracting the attention of the Police and I hope anyone doing this will be met with the full force of the law.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Common Assault

Postby PDQ Mobile » 19 Oct 2017, 8:06pm

I am saying that in my not so humble opinion the OP cycles too far out.
I don't have to be careful about my opinion!
It is my opinion just that!

He has had similar problems before. With a lorry last time and I saw the problem caused by the same bad position.
Look at the video(s)and tell me otherwise?
Cameras front and back!!
This guy (the OP) is expecting trouble? Why?

I am not condoning the push but if things are going wrong then the OP could re-assess his road craft and save everybody hassle!

Bonefishblues
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Re: Common Assault

Postby Bonefishblues » 19 Oct 2017, 8:33pm

BakfietsUK wrote:So PDQ Mobile are you saying that the offenders behaviour was justified. I would be careful about your answer and have a jolly good think about what you might imply.

He clearly was saying nothing of the kind.

Apropos of the attempt to push the OP off his bicycle, having watched it several times it looked to me like an attempt to slap the top of the head, judging by the way his arm described an arc downwards afterwards and the minimal deflection from the OP's path. Still assault, that's not in debate, and dangerous in itself, but different in intent, perhaps.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Common Assault

Postby The utility cyclist » 19 Oct 2017, 10:24pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:This is not the first time you have had issues?
It is my option that you cycle too far out in the road.
You seem to cycle right in the middle of the lane all the time.
On such a road a motorcycle should be able to pass you at any time with ease.
Even after you stop it is clear that cars cannot pass you.
Now the push is not right but actually you hardly wobble so it was not so hard. I think you are at least in part to blame because your road positioning is poor. I think the motorcyclist was trying to tell you that.
Sorry but that's how I see it.

UTTER nonsense.
first of all on approach to a right turn he's in the correct position.
immediately after the turn there's a parked van so central position again correct followed shortly after by good positioning for the parked car on the road, again correct position and in fact both the vehicles overtaking especially the van are able to pass without incident.

it also looks to me at that point that the road gets a bit gnarly in secondary so although the position might seem "right in the middle of the lane" there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. To be assaulted for legally going about your business is not on and the police action is feeble.
for you to attack the OP with your bilge highlights how you think, well done for IDing yourself in the first instance.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Common Assault

Postby PDQ Mobile » 19 Oct 2017, 10:33pm

It is my opinion that the OP cycles too far out.
He is a fast cyclist but that does not give him the right to impede other traffic unnecessarily.
If you look at his videos there are a whole series of films of similar dangerous overtakes.
One should ask oneself why is this?
So many problems?
And why does he feel it necessary to cycle with two cameras recording everything.?

It is my firm opinion that he cycles (generally) to far out and that it gets up the nose of other road users. The motorcyclist as I see it should not have been impeded on that road, it is plenty wide enough had the OP been in a better position.

MikeF
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Re: Common Assault

Postby MikeF » 19 Oct 2017, 11:39pm

PDQ Mobile wrote: The motorcyclist as I see it should not have been impeded on that road, it is plenty wide enough had the OP been in a better position.
It doesn't appear to me that the motorcyclist was impeded. He was also a learner.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master

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Graham
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Re: Common Assault

Postby Graham » 20 Oct 2017, 8:40am

I used to live in the Woking area and know of some of the roads referred to by the OP JS.
When I say "know" I mean "know to avoid". I had that choice.
I suspect that for JS they are critical routes i.e. there is no other choice except not to cycle on them.

Which brings me to the perception of "primary position", as a defensive position for cycling on such roads.
We are encouraged to use primary position for safety.
Unfortunately, a large proportion of motorists don't have any idea about primary position for cycling.
They see it as a self-righteous/stupid cyclist taking up an unreasonable amount of roadspace and blocking their progress ( for no good reason ).

The ignorant, angry, crazy ones resort to road rage.

I congratulate JS for his diligent pursuit of those who put him in danger.
At least there is one cyclist, in the area, who is determined not to be bullied off his local roads.

Occasionally I would cycle from Woking to Chobham along the main road. It was a consistently unpleasant experience.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Common Assault

Postby PDQ Mobile » 20 Oct 2017, 8:44am

MikeF wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote: The motorcyclist as I see it should not have been impeded on that road, it is plenty wide enough had the OP been in a better position.
It doesn't appear to me that the motorcyclist was impeded. He was also a learner.


But the rear view video does show that OP does do just that, i.e. impede the motorcyclist. IMV.
There are no parked cars at that point.
Last edited by PDQ Mobile on 20 Oct 2017, 8:52am, edited 1 time in total.

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meic
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Re: Common Assault

Postby meic » 20 Oct 2017, 8:50am

Road positioning isnt something that you can judge from a one-off video.

There are stretches of road which the experience of riding them frequently has taught me have to be ridden in a position that only allows motorists to overtake if they go on to the other side of the road.
There is a balance between the problems of being too far in and too far out. That balance point doesnt stop the problems of being both too far in and too far out (at the same time), it merely provides the least bad option.
Better a slap on the head from a moped rider than getting ground under the wheels of a HGV who was trying to squeeze between you and an oncoming car because you left the driver the opportunity to give it a try.
Yma o Hyd

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Common Assault

Postby PDQ Mobile » 20 Oct 2017, 9:02am

meic wrote:Road positioning isnt something that you can judge from a one-off video.

There are stretches of road which the experience of riding them frequently has taught me have to be ridden in a position that only allows motorists to overtake if they go on to the other side of the road.
There is a balance between the problems of being too far in and too far out. That balance point doesnt stop the problems of being both too far in and too far out (at the same time), it merely provides the least bad option.
Better a slap on the head from a moped rider than getting ground under the wheels of a HGV who was trying to squeeze between you and an oncoming car because you left the driver the opportunity to give it a try.


I agree.
Wise and experienced words.

But if one is having constant problems of the same nature, plus the fear, the shouting and swearing,calling the police, then a review of one's own roadcraft would also he wise.
I have looked at several of the OP's video and I very often have the impression that he is in "primary plus". Unnecessarily far out.
On a normal two way road a small motor cycle, should be able to pass a cyclist unimpeded.

BakfietsUK
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Re: Common Assault

Postby BakfietsUK » 20 Oct 2017, 9:17am

The right to give opinions carries the responsibility of answering to others' rights of reply. Blaming the victim may be a cliché, but if we are not careful we'll fall into a trap of denouncing our own arguments and our right to be on the road. My opinion.

I am not a perfect cyclist, I make mistakes, like all other human beings. This makes me completely unqualified to judge another's behaviour in a context where I was not present and know very little about.

So my on-going goal is to listen to the aggrieved and challenge those who may be inclined to judge their behaviour. We get far too much unworthy judgement from others anyway, without adding to the problem ourselves.

We make our own judgements all the time in the context of the situation we are in at the time on close passes and motorist behaviour. So in that context I gladly accept a philosophy of "I wouldn't do that" or "they are driving inconsiderately". However, I will challenge a view that seeks to assert an element of complicity from the injured party. The Police would have that job.

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meic
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Re: Common Assault

Postby meic » 20 Oct 2017, 9:32am

But if one is having constant problems of the same nature, plus the fear, the shouting and swearing,calling the police, then a review of one's own roadcraft would also he wise.


Ninety nine percent of the population solve this problem in the easy and obvious way. You just do not ride a bike on that road.
I do have that sort of problem on the road, on the stretch of main road that I live on because I have no choice but to ride it. As soon as I reach the first junction on to a tertiary lane I take it. Like most cyclists I have been intimidated off the roads which should serve me and I have the right to ride.

If I had to ride those roads and I had to do it at peak times, I would have just as much agro as he does.
Yma o Hyd