Bike stolen and retrieved - extraordinary day!

[thirdcrank]

Because the cable was cut? ...

Selling something on is good evidence of a permanent intention to deprive. Incidentally, the person selling the bike might not have been the thief, or it might have been difficult to prove they were, because of the length of time between theft and recovery.

As a student, I has something similar when I had a Rotrax stolen and some time later a friend caught somebody riding it and called the police. The rider claimed to have found it abandoned and the stipendiary magistrate believed him or at least, had reasonable doubts.

[PDQ Mobile]

So CCTV or eye witness evidence of cutting of the cable not enough?
I am surprised at that.
And in some ways makes Pete's experience look more like straight theft to me.

[whoof]

Because the cable was cut? ...

Selling something on is good evidence of a permanent intention to deprive. Incidentally, the person selling the bike might not have been the thief, or it might have been difficult to prove they were, because of the length of time between theft and recovery.

As a student, I has something similar when I had a Rotrax stolen and some time later a friend caught somebody riding it and called the police. The rider claimed to have found it abandoned and the stipendiary magistrate believed him or at least, had reasonable doubts.

There is an offence of Theft by Finding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_by_finding

This is the case of someone who had possession of a shotgun that was stolen in a burglary and claimed they had found it. They also blew one of their fingers with is trying to remove a wart!

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/gunman-bl ... -1-3479357

[Username]

The bit I don't get is - "Now I wasn't sure what to do: I phoned BTP once again and said, I've found it: is it OK to retrieve my bike?"

Why contact the cops for permission to retrieve your own bike back. Just fudging take it back! The police wont do sod all to assist in recovering your bike or arresting the thief anyway.

[661-Pete]

This is the bit I dont get "Now I wasn't sure what to do: I phoned BTP once again and said, I've found it: is it OK to retrieve my bike?"

Why contact the cops for permission to retrieve your own bike back. Just fudging take it back! The police wont do sod all to assist in recovering your bike or arresting the thief anyway.

There was a reason. When I first got through to the Police (this was before I recovered the bike), I said that I was planning to go out in search of it. The officer I spoke to strenuously urged me not to retrieve it if I found it, instead to phone the police once more. She was being rather melodramatic, perhaps, I suppose she had organised gangs and/or terrorism on her mind (after all the BTP have had plenty of experience of that lately).

The idea that criminals might be watching the place where the bike was dumped, or that it might be booby-trapped in some way, were of course implausible beyond all reasonable belief! At least, implausible in Plumpton! But I didn't argue.

Therefore, when we found the bike, I did not want to be breaking a promise I'd made, since that would put me 'in the wrong' so to speak. So I duly phoned the police once more. That led to a further wait before I gave up and took the bike anyway. I was pleased enough at having recovered it, I didn't really mind the delay!

As it's turned out, I've had a long conversation with BTP (n.b. not Sussex police) today. They are mainly concerned with studying the CCTV footage at Plumpton station, to see if the person is identifiable and 'known' to them. I've told them, if that turns out to be the case, and if the person concerned has a record, I'll be willing to press charges. Otherwise not. The main object is to prevent this happening to someone else.

For this sort of crime, "prevention" is clearly the lesson learnt. As many of you have pointed out.

[toontra]

For this sort of crime, "prevention" is clearly the lesson learnt. As many of you have pointed out.

Out of interest, Pete, would you consider locking your bike in future, especially if out of eyesight, even if this was contrary to the rules?

[661-Pete]

For this sort of crime, "prevention" is clearly the lesson learnt. As many of you have pointed out.

Out of interest, Pete, would you consider locking your bike in future, especially if out of eyesight, even if this was contrary to the rules?

I think I would. The type of train mostly in use on Southern has a designated bike space adjacent to the disabled toilet, and I had been aiming for that: unfortunately I had waited on the wrong part of the platform and I couldn't reach the correct door in time. At the proper bike space there are restraining straps to hold your bike to a sort of handrail, and jump seats opposite so you can sit watching the bike. However there's only space for two bikes in the official place and they are often full up.

I don't remember if there are notices there saying DO NOT LOCK YOUR BIKE. I'll have a look next time I'm on a train.

As it happens, the police officer whom I spoke to first, asked "did you lock your bike?" When I answered, "no", I got a bit of a lecture about being security-aware! So the police are, understandably, in favour of you locking your bike - even if the train companies aren't.

[Flinders]

it should be akin to taking and moving a vehicle without the owners consent, or even horse theft - do they still allow the owner to shoot the culprit in the USA.

I thought that in the Wild West they used to hang horse thieves.
Now there's an idea.....

Not just the wild west. In England way back, stealing a horse was definitely a hanging offence.

[mjr]

At least you didn't become a two part story in a local newspaper. Or have to rugby tackle the thief. https://apiln.co.uk/bike-thief-learns-t ... ace-bikes/

[honesty]

The only way I would not lock my bike on a train is if the train company cover the bike if it’s stolen as my insurance definitely wouldn’t...

[661-Pete]

Not just the wild west. In England way back, stealing a horse was definitely a hanging offence.

I remember the old proverb: "might as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb". If that was indeed the penalty for sheep-stealing, it must surely have been inflicted for the more serious crime of horse-stealing. So - bike-stealing?

[foxychick]

The moral of this story is lock your bike when on the train and if you are unable to do that then never let it out of your sight and if that is not possible just stand at the side of your bike just before every stop as that is what i do.

[PDQ Mobile]

The moral of this story is lock your bike when on the train and if you are unable to do that then never let it out of your sight and if that is not possible just stand at the side of your bike just before every stop as that is what i do.

I think it's only a plaster to a greater problem.
A societal problem that has become so accepted and engrained that, if one questions it, ridicule may result.
Yet the benefits of a more honest society are very great, both in terms of pure economics, and perhaps, most especially, in terms of quality of life.
There are still areas of rural Britain where things are not so far gone.
It is (IMHO) in part political, austerity has created great disparity in wealth now. And people feel cut off from any chance of better living standards.
But it's often just plain thoughtlessness for others.

Philosophers hat off.
I'll get me coat.

[thirdcrank]

Because the cable was cut? ...

Selling something on is good evidence of a permanent intention to deprive. Incidentally, the person selling the bike might not have been the thief, or it might have been difficult to prove they were, because of the length of time between theft and recovery.

As a student, I has something similar when I had a Rotrax stolen and some time later a friend caught somebody riding it and called the police. The rider claimed to have found it abandoned and the stipendiary magistrate believed him or at least, had reasonable doubts.

There is an offence of Theft by Finding. ...

Indeed there is, but one of the defences is that the suspect believed the property to have been abandoned ie has no owner who can consent to the taking. Back in 1964 when my bike was stolen - and the switching of parts including the wheels was evidence of the intention permanently to deprive - it was still the Larceny Act (the Larceny Act 1861 having been largely amended by the Larceny Act 1916, which I learned largely by heart in 1967) My shiny Rotrax was in a sorry state.

Sorry for resuscitating this deviation but it's still possible to link to the now defunct Larceny Act and this brings back memories of being a young man: it's a bit like being able to recite Albert and the Lion, but even less useful.

1 Definition
For the purposes of this Act—
(1) A person steals who, without the consent of the owner, fraudulently and without a claim of right made in good faith, takes and carries away anything capable of being stolen with intent, at the time of such taking, permanently to deprive the owner thereof :

Provided that a person may be guilty of stealing any such thing notwithstanding that he has lawful possession thereof, if, being a bailee or part owner thereof, he fraudulently converts the same to his own use or the use of any person other than the owner:

(2) (i) the expression " takes" includes obtaining the possession—
(a) by any trick ;
(b) y intimidation;
(c) under a mistake on the part of the owner with knowledge on the part of the taker that possession has been so obtained ;
(d) by finding, where at the time of the finding the finder believes that the owner can be discovered by taking reasonable steps ;

(ii) the expression "carries away " includes any removal of anything from the place which it occupies, but in the case of a thing attached, only if it has been completely detached;
(iii) the expression " owner" includes any part owner, or person having possession or control of, or a special property in, anything capable of being stolen :
(3) Everything which has value and is the property of any person, and if adhering to the realty then after severance therefrom, shall be capable of being stolen: (etc)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1916/50/enacted

[Debs]

I think we've got to the age that if ones bike is much loved, or very expensive, it needs a lightweight hidden transponder device onboard:




http://www.cyclingweekly.com/group-tests/find-your-stolen-bike-with-a-gps-tracker-165579


Has anyone here got one fitted?

Do they actually work?