Oxford city centre to be zero emission by 2020

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reohn2
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Re: Oxford city centre to be zero emission by 2020

Post by reohn2 »

Bmblbzzz wrote:Nice little film. You could quibble at all sorts of things that make Groningen atypical but what's the point, it's far too nice for that! But – liveability, in which cycleability is merely a part, rather than cycleability for its own sake.

I agree,cycling becomes default transport by its sheer convenience in the absence of motors,clean green motors can be used for deliveries outside opening times when there's a lot less footfall but a confined environment is much more pleasant without the presence of motors,any motors.
I once read an article which put foward the theory as to why most european countries were more open to cycling was because they were occupied during or just after WW1&2,their fuel was either taken from them by occupying forces or after the war(s) their economy was depleted and they couldnt afford to motor,as a result their default transport became the bike,it gets you to places quicker than your feet and with much less effort.
This went deep into the psyche and hasn't been forgotten by some nations especially NL when they saw the folly of too much car use and how it affected their lives,similarly so the Scandinavian countries.
Interestingly these countries though mainly flat have quite harsh winters and their summers are similar to the UK,which proves that utility cycling can and does work,but what these countries have done is restricted motoring and made cycling more convenient by building on the whole decent connected quality cycling infrastructure.
In the UK there seems to be a more brash attitude to motoring because it's been allowed and encouraged to get completely out of hand,park anywhere drive everywhere,so much so it's become a right rather than privilege.And worse than that a necessity due to a purposely badly organised public tranport system thats unreliable and expensive to use.
The results are a sickly population choking on its own vomit of toxic fumes caused by too much motoring in confined spaces.
As a parallel example go into any pub these days and compare it to how the atmosphere was before the smoking ban,more than that,smoking since the ban has declined and is still declining as a result.
Could it be the same with car addiction,can people really see how much better life can be without the constant accompaniment of the noise and nastyness of motors at close quarters?

In answer to HJD10's worry about deliveries of supplies to shops and businesses one has to ask how do the more enlightened European countries do it?
Or is that too much for the UK psyche to handle,after all who won the war anyway :?
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Oxford city centre to be zero emission by 2020

Post by Bmblbzzz »

I'm not sure about the occupation theory. That should make the countries of Eastern Europe, where private motoring was difficult and expensive not just in the aftermath of WWII but for five decades after, the most cycling friendly in the whole continent. They aren't. In fact it had almost the opposite effect; cars became desired objects and status symbols, especially when they flooded in post-2004, far more so than in the West.
reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Oxford city centre to be zero emission by 2020

Post by reohn2 »

Bmblbzzz wrote:I'm not sure about the occupation theory. That should make the countries of Eastern Europe, where private motoring was difficult and expensive not just in the aftermath of WWII but for five decades after, the most cycling friendly in the whole continent. They aren't. In fact it had almost the opposite effect; cars became desired objects and status symbols, especially when they flooded in post-2004, far more so than in the West.

The eastern bloc had a completely different socio-economic layout where personal freedom was supressed in favour of state.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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Bmblbzzz
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Re: Oxford city centre to be zero emission by 2020

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Yes, and that has had interesting effects (in various directions simultaneously) once those controls were lifted. But you seemed to be considering occupation and immediate post-war experience in the same way; clearly, inhabitants of occupied countries didn't get much freedom to drive around, and even in unoccupied countries, fuel was rationed and journeys had to be "necessary".
reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Oxford city centre to be zero emission by 2020

Post by reohn2 »

Bmblbzzz wrote:Yes, and that has had interesting effects (in various directions simultaneously) once those controls were lifted. But you seemed to be considering occupation and immediate post-war experience in the same way; clearly, inhabitants of occupied countries didn't get much freedom to drive around, and even in unoccupied countries, fuel was rationed and journeys had to be "necessary".

Once the fetters were off things went a bit wild but most European countries realised sooner or later they'd exchanged one problem for another.
The UK didn't follow suit making it that much harder to turn the tide of public feeling,especially when successive generations felt they had the right to drive any and everywhere they pleased and park wherever they please.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Oxford city centre to be zero emission by 2020

Post by [XAP]Bob »

The step change in the Netherlands was the child murder protests - not fuel scarcity post war...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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reohn2
Posts: 45181
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Oxford city centre to be zero emission by 2020

Post by reohn2 »

[XAP]Bob wrote:The step change in the Netherlands was the child murder protests - not fuel scarcity post war...

No the opposite in fact,it was the afluence that NL garnered post war that caused the problem,child deaths on the roads were a conseof more cars,mixing with a society used to cycling at all ages.
In the UK it was the same but no one did anything about it except build more roads and close more rail lines orcastrated(sorry couldn't resist) by a chap(Marples)who was managing director of the largest road building company in the UK, a Tory naturally.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
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