Lane manoeuvre advice please

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
User avatar
bovlomov
Posts: 4202
Joined: 5 Apr 2007, 7:45am
Contact:

Re: Lane manoeuvre advice please

Post by bovlomov »

Vorpal wrote:but there's no shame in using the left turn lane and crossing as a pedestrian, if you aren't feeling confident.

...but as there appears to be no footpath on either side of the road you'd be crossing, there may equally be no phase of the lights that allows you to cross as a pedestrian.
Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 20700
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Lane manoeuvre advice please

Post by Vorpal »

bovlomov wrote:
Vorpal wrote:but there's no shame in using the left turn lane and crossing as a pedestrian, if you aren't feeling confident.

...but as there appears to be no footpath on either side of the road you'd be crossing, there may equally be no phase of the lights that allows you to cross as a pedestrian.

It looks like it would be an informal or ad hoc crossing; one of the reasons that I cautioned the OP about the possible speed of turning vehicles, and said that cycling through is probably safer.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Lane manoeuvre advice please

Post by thirdcrank »

As you are doing the ride today, I'm probably too late with this but here goes anyway.

Although you describe the road as rural, I've had a look along part of it on streetview and it's not some idyllic country lane. If you have the confidence to use that road, then this junction shouldn't faze you. The ideal line, as has been recommended above is to do the same as motor traffic: ie, you need to be in the outer, straight-ahead lane to go straight ahead. It's not going to get any easier moving out there nearer the junction, when you will have to deal with left turning traffic while trying to join your intended lane, so the ideal place is where the road widens to form two lanes; just don't give anybody the slightest reason to believe you may be turning left. However, a lot depends on the speed of the traffic approaching you from behind. Even a professional racing cyclist has only so much ability to match the speed of motor traffic. There's no recognised "I'm going straight ahead" signal so, unless the road is clear behind, a clear "I intend to turn right/ change lane" signal is the only recognised signal available until you are clearly in the straight ahead lane.

A lot depends on the state of the traffic lights as you approach. If they are at green in your favour, drivers behind you may anticipate that the inevitable gap in the traffic in front of you will trigger a change of the lights to STOP and they may try to pass you to avoid being held up. You need the confidence (courage?) to hold the centre of that lane. If the lights are already at red and a queue has formed, it may be advantageous to get near to the head of the queue, if you can filter safely, bearing in mind that the lights may change again before you get up there. There are different opinions about where to position yourself if you do get to the front with the lights at red. There's no advanced stop line (ASL) so it's illegal to cross the white line, even to stop just over it. Not everybody complies with that. An alternative is just behind the first vehicle in the queue. (This is one of those locations where cyclists should be allowed to treat the traffic lights as GIVE WAY signs, to get across the junction during gaps in the traffic but it's illegal so I'll not recommend it.)

None of that is much use if you lack the confidence to take the correct lane. In those circumstances, you can only improvise, depending on conditions. It might be possible to use the left turn lane and somehow get onto the verge just before the junction and wait for the lights to stop the traffic. Then you could ride out to your correct lane. Or, has been suggested, turn left then rejoin from the side road. Neither is ideal, but if you cannot get out into the correct lane you need some sort of alternative.

I'm conscious of using the word "depends" but that's how it is at locations like this.

There's lot's of good advice in "Cyclecraft."

http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/

(My only connection is as a satisfied reader.)
brychan
Posts: 87
Joined: 7 Oct 2017, 9:14pm

Re: Lane manoeuvre advice please

Post by brychan »

Thanks all for your sound advice.

I went out today on a 20 mile ride and carried out the manoeuvre perfectly no problem.

Thanks
User avatar
horizon
Posts: 11275
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: Lane manoeuvre advice please

Post by horizon »

thirdcrank wrote:As you are doing the ride today, I'm probably too late with this but here goes anyway.

Well, even if of no use to the OP, he/she has triggered a valuable discussion. And it has shown up some difference of opinion.


The ideal line, as has been recommended above is to do the same as motor traffic: ie, you need to be in the outer, straight-ahead lane to go straight ahead.


This is one such difference as I would say that (a) if you stay to the side of the outer lane to allow traffic past you will have traffic on both sides of you and (b) holding the outer lane may encourage cars behind in any case to pass you in the left hand lane. So my preferred position would be centre line in left hand lane.

However I think we are all agreed that If you stay in the left hand lane without taking centre line, you may be faced with having to turn left.

What I would dearly love is a representative of the owner of this road to come forward and say what their intention was regarding cyclists on at this junction.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
User avatar
horizon
Posts: 11275
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: Lane manoeuvre advice please

Post by horizon »

brychan wrote:Thanks all for your sound advice.

I went out today on a 20 mile ride and carried out the manoeuvre perfectly no problem.

Thanks


Ahh, but which manoeuvre?
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Bmblbzzz
Posts: 6261
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Lane manoeuvre advice please

Post by Bmblbzzz »

In that situation left-turning traffic is bound to overtake you on the left, assuming you're in the straight-ahead lane. That's normal and shouldn't be a problem.
User avatar
bovlomov
Posts: 4202
Joined: 5 Apr 2007, 7:45am
Contact:

Re: Lane manoeuvre advice please

Post by bovlomov »

The aerial photo hints at quite a lot of debris outside the racing lines. Another reason to stick to the centre of the lane until well after the junction.
User avatar
horizon
Posts: 11275
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: Lane manoeuvre advice please

Post by horizon »

Bmblbzzz wrote:In that situation left-turning traffic is bound to overtake you on the left, assuming you're in the straight-ahead lane. That's normal and shouldn't be a problem.


IIUYC, my feeling has always been that it isn't desirable to have traffic passing on both sides at uncontrolled speeds - it's a high level of vulnerability which I feel is both unpleasant and unnecessary. I would leave it open as to which lane to "control" in this circumstance but either is better than neither IMV. I would use a combination of looking, hand signalling and communication to ensure that the driver knew my intentions and that I required him to remain behind.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
User avatar
Tigerbiten
Posts: 2503
Joined: 29 Jun 2009, 6:49am

Re: Lane manoeuvre advice please

Post by Tigerbiten »

Bmblbzzz wrote:In that situation left-turning traffic is bound to overtake you on the left, assuming you're in the straight-ahead lane. That's normal and shouldn't be a problem.

That I don't mind as I expect that.

It's the straight on traffic that undertakes you on your left and then cuts right to get in the straight on lane that I don't like or trust.
If the distance becomes to short because they've misjudged your speed, It can be a bit 50-50 if they're still going to cut right and if they do and you're still in the way, the tough luck ...... :(
Pete Owens
Posts: 2442
Joined: 7 Jul 2008, 12:52am

Re: Lane manoeuvre advice please

Post by Pete Owens »

horizon wrote:What I would dearly love is a representative of the owner of this road to come forward and say what their intention was regarding cyclists on at this junction.


Fortunately in this case it obvious; just follow the the big white arrows.
Pete Owens
Posts: 2442
Joined: 7 Jul 2008, 12:52am

Re: Lane manoeuvre advice please

Post by Pete Owens »

horizon wrote:
The ideal line, as has been recommended above is to do the same as motor traffic: ie, you need to be in the outer, straight-ahead lane to go straight ahead.


This is one such difference as I would say that (a) if you stay to the side of the outer lane to allow traffic past you will have traffic on both sides of you

That would indeed be very unwise - and has not been advocated by anyone here. Only do this if you consider the the absolute imperative of drivers to make progress more important than your own safety. If you ride on the line you are actively inviting drivers to pass on both sides.
and (b) holding the outer lane may encourage cars behind in any case to pass you in the left hand lane.

Which may be fine if they have left enough distance to complete the overtake. However, the vast majority of drivers will follow you through the junction - and those that don't have made a conscious decision to overtake clearly knowing where you are going and how much space they have.
So my preferred position would be centre line in left hand lane.

In which case you are effectively signalling an intention to turn left (whatever position you take within the lane that is what the lane is for) - so expect most left turning vehicles to overtake on the right. If you are riding in the left hand filter lane then at some point before you reach the junction you will need to negotiate into the correct lane and filter across the path of left turning traffic and into the path of straight ahead traffic. You are effectively converting a straight ahead manoeuvre into a much more difficult right turn.

There are two situations where I would consider using the filter lane:-
1. If traffic was so light that I didn't anticipate encountering any, and if a car did appear then they could pass through without being held up an it would be easy to pick a time to change lanes near to the junction.
2. If there was a long queue that it would be worth filtering past.
And I would only consider those options if I was familiar with the junction.
brychan
Posts: 87
Joined: 7 Oct 2017, 9:14pm

Re: Lane manoeuvre advice please

Post by brychan »

Hi

The manoeuvre I took was being aware of the traffic behind me at least 50yds before 1 became 2 lanes, put my right arm out to indicate I was riding along the outside lane. I found it quite safe & comfortable.

I will posting a question to any cyclists who are familiar with the Gwent levels to ask about certain roads & lanes around the Magor area.

Thanks
Post Reply