Mass vehicular homicide on cycle lane in New York

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thelawnet
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Mass vehicular homicide on cycle lane in New York

Postby thelawnet » 31 Oct 2017, 9:30pm

An eyewitness filmed the moments after a driver ploughed into cyclists in a bike lane in Manhattan.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-c ... the-street

Motive apparently Islamist terror https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/nyre ... attan.html

At least eight dead.

Hopefully this is the first and last such attack specifically on cyclists who present a very easy target for vehicles to run down.

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The utility cyclist
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Re: Mass vehicular homicide on cycle lane in New York

Postby The utility cyclist » 1 Nov 2017, 12:07am

It'll be a great excuse for closing down cycle lanes, watch this space, yet more restrictions for people on bikes :twisted:

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Re: Mass vehicular homicide on cycle lane in New York

Postby mjr » 1 Nov 2017, 7:38am

Hopefully they'll go the otherway and restrict motorists more. From what I remember, NY was even more cautious about installing posts to protect cycleways from motorists driving along them.
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AlaninWales
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Re: Mass vehicular homicide on cycle lane in New York

Postby AlaninWales » 1 Nov 2017, 12:33pm

mjr wrote:Hopefully they'll go the otherway and restrict motorists more. From what I remember, NY was even more cautious about installing posts to protect cycleways from motorists driving along them.

Appears to have been on a completely segregated path. Short of vehicle traps at every entrance and vehicle-proof fencing all along the route, what can be done to prevent a determined attacker deciding 'this is where I will kill'?

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mjr
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Re: Mass vehicular homicide on cycle lane in New York

Postby mjr » 1 Nov 2017, 1:34pm

AlaninWales wrote:
mjr wrote:Hopefully they'll go the otherway and restrict motorists more. From what I remember, NY was even more cautious about installing posts to protect cycleways from motorists driving along them.

Appears to have been on a completely segregated path. Short of vehicle traps at every entrance and vehicle-proof fencing all along the route, what can be done to prevent a determined attacker deciding 'this is where I will kill'?

Bollards at the entry points would probably have defeated that attacker or at least limited how far along it he could go before his vehicle was disabled. The Hudson River Greenway is already protected from the adjacent carriageway by trees and a wall, although cyclists can probably bump over the kerb on the outside to get into the park and avoid an attacker, which may explain how he reportedly only killed 8 in a mile - still a tragedy but could have been far worse. I assume the attacker drove onto the greenway where it crosses one of the access roads to the piers, or at one of the crosswalks without bollards.

However, if the Uber driver couldn't have got on the greenway, he might have driven along the opposite footway instead and would probably have killed more there because many walkers would have been trapped between buildings and the roadside line of parked cars.
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Stevek76
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Re: Mass vehicular homicide on cycle lane in New York

Postby Stevek76 » 1 Nov 2017, 2:13pm

There's a trade off between stopping hostile and/or plain incompetent drivers and hindrance and danger to the cyclists themselves though, particularly for those on less usual cycles, e.g. cargo bikes and recumbents. The barriers installed in london last spring are a good example.

Or just the vast majority of attempts to prevent motor vehicle access to bike paths everywhere for that matter.

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mjr
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Re: Mass vehicular homicide on cycle lane in New York

Postby mjr » 1 Nov 2017, 2:39pm

Stevek76 wrote:There's a trade off between stopping hostile and/or plain incompetent drivers and hindrance and danger to the cyclists themselves though, particularly for those on less usual cycles, e.g. cargo bikes and recumbents. The barriers installed in london last spring are a good example.

Or just the vast majority of attempts to prevent motor vehicle access to bike paths everywhere for that matter.

Indeed. The black wedges in London are particularly nasty. Most of the time, it doesn't need more than a simple bollard to narrow the width too much for most motorists.
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mercalia
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Re: Mass vehicular homicide on cycle lane in New York

Postby mercalia » 1 Nov 2017, 3:02pm

its clear we will be seeing more of these types of attack :cry: easy to get hold of the weapon and can see the effects immediately

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Re: Mass vehicular homicide on cycle lane in New York

Postby reohn2 » 1 Nov 2017, 5:19pm

AlaninWales wrote:
mjr wrote:Hopefully they'll go the otherway and restrict motorists more. From what I remember, NY was even more cautious about installing posts to protect cycleways from motorists driving along them.

Appears to have been on a completely segregated path. Short of vehicle traps at every entrance and vehicle-proof fencing all along the route, what can be done to prevent a determined attacker deciding 'this is where I will kill'?


Absolutely nothing,thats why hiring a suitable vehicle with a view to killing innocent people, irrespective of one's own life is so effective as a terrorist weapon add to it a firearm and it's even more effective :twisted:
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Ben@Forest
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Re: Mass vehicular homicide on cycle lane in New York

Postby Ben@Forest » 1 Nov 2017, 5:53pm

Some sources are reporting that wearing earphones may not have helped the victims:

Sky News US Correspondent Hannah Thomas-Peter, who is in Washington, said police sources have said some of those injured may have been unable to get out of the way because they were wearing headphones while cycling.

I can believe it - who hasn't, either driving or cycling, been sat behind a completely oblivious jogger or cyclist? Last week a cheery good morning as I rode past a jogger nearly put him in a ditch, Jesus he jumped!

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Re: Mass vehicular homicide on cycle lane in New York

Postby mjr » 1 Nov 2017, 6:16pm

Let the victim blaming begin :-(

It's only the next day. :roll:

I'm really sure the group of middle aged friends visiting the city for their 30-year high school reunion would have been wearing headphones instead of talking to each other(!)

That NYPD source should be unmasked, fired and ideally sent to ride in traffic with headphones in. :twisted:
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reohn2
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Re: Mass vehicular homicide on cycle lane in New York

Postby reohn2 » 1 Nov 2017, 7:55pm

mjr wrote:Let the victim blaming begin :-(

It's only the next day. :roll:

I'm really sure the group of middle aged friends visiting the city for their 30-year high school reunion would have been wearing headphones instead of talking to each other(!)

That NYPD source should be unmasked, fired and ideally sent to ride in traffic with headphones in. :twisted:

+1


I've just been listening to Trump trumpeting on about justice and immigration control :? I didnt hear him making noises about gun control a short time ago when a maniac opened fire on a crowd at a music concert from a hotel room in Las Vagas .
I wonder if those people would've been safer if the music wasn't so loud :?
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Cunobelin
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Re: Mass vehicular homicide on cycle lane in New York

Postby Cunobelin » 1 Nov 2017, 8:09pm

Ben@Forest wrote:Some sources are reporting that wearing earphones may not have helped the victims:

Sky News US Correspondent Hannah Thomas-Peter, who is in Washington, said police sources have said some of those injured may have been unable to get out of the way because they were wearing headphones while cycling.

I can believe it - who hasn't, either driving or cycling, been sat behind a completely oblivious jogger or cyclist? Last week a cheery good morning as I rode past a jogger nearly put him in a ditch, Jesus he jumped!



As compared with Toulouse?

The victim should have been wearing stab vests?

What about Nice?

Should we have been looking at how many of these victims were wearing ear phones?

BakfietsUK
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Re: Mass vehicular homicide on cycle lane in New York

Postby BakfietsUK » 2 Nov 2017, 8:28am

It totally illustrates the inherent danger that motor vehicles pose to pedestrians and cyclists, especially when driven by malevolent individuals. Incidents such as Hungerford were a major motivation to control guns. The logic of this may indicate a need to control the use of vehicles, but I fear that there would be an incredible amount of denial and inertia toward restricting motor vehicles. The powers to be are in no doubt about the value of the motoring vote which indicates a fundamental difference from the view of guns being socially un-acceptable. To try to accept vehicles as socially un-acceptable "weapons" even when it can be argued that they are just that, would put many motorists into psychological turmoil. the result would probably be to restrict pedestrians and cyclists more just so that the tougher choices can be side-lined for purposes of an easier life.

Consider recent incidents such as Bath and Glasgow when vehicles went out of control and one may wonder if the operation of powered vehicles in the close proximity of flesh and blood was ever a good idea. I reckon horse powered transport was dangerous enough for pedestrians, but to up the anti and install hundreds of horsepower in a vehicle that is inches away from people is to me utter madness. You could say that this risk can be tolerated because of the facility that vehicles give us. My view is that the convenience of this aspect of modern life is just not worth it.

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Re: Mass vehicular homicide on cycle lane in New York

Postby thirdcrank » 3 Nov 2017, 9:32am

... Hopefully this is the first and last such attack specifically on cyclists who present a very easy target for vehicles to run down.


In spite of my own views on drivers attacks on cyclists, in the absence of any other evidence, I don't think that this attacker targeted cyclists as cyclists but as easy targets. That makes no difference to the enormity of the event, of course. I'm pretty sure that the targets of this could have been anybody vulnerable.

My point here is that bad driving, using a vehicle to attack cyclists only because they are cyclists, and using a vehicle as a terrorist weapon have different causes and so need to be tackled differently.