It's green, so off we go - or do we?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
thirdcrank
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Re: It's green, so off we go - or do we?

Postby thirdcrank » 7 Nov 2017, 2:04pm

reohn2 wrote: ... the guff about Keo/Look type pedals and road shoes giving better power transfer,blah,blah,etc,etc,and so suffer the difficulties that system brings with it. .


Yes, the common factor from the earlier posts seems to be pedals of those types. I've never used either so I don't know. I don't remember any problems from toe clips, even when riding fixed with toe clip covers, or from SPD's. My first SPD's were single-sided road pedals from the brief period before Shimano bowed to the inevitable with their road pedals. As well as the usual double-sided SPD's I've also used the type with a conventional pedal on one side and SPD on the other. What does surprise me on reflection is that during the period when I had both toe clips and SPD's in regular use, I never forgot what was going on down there.

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661-Pete
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Re: It's green, so off we go - or do we?

Postby 661-Pete » 7 Nov 2017, 2:20pm

Toe clips for me.

I usually get my foot in the clip on the first revolution of the pedal - but if I don't, I do as others have said here: pedal on the underside of the pedal until I've got some speed up and can slip the foot in at leisure.

Some of my toe clips have straps, others don't. With the strapped ones, I very rarely tighten the straps. Not necessary for my old bones.... :? :)
Pete

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reohn2
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Re: It's green, so off we go - or do we?

Postby reohn2 » 7 Nov 2017, 2:44pm

thirdcrank wrote:
reohn2 wrote: ... the guff about Keo/Look type pedals and road shoes giving better power transfer,blah,blah,etc,etc,and so suffer the difficulties that system brings with it. .


Yes, the common factor from the earlier posts seems to be pedals of those types. I've never used either so I don't know. I don't remember any problems from toe clips, even when riding fixed with toe clip covers, or from SPD's. My first SPD's were single-sided road pedals from the brief period before Shimano bowed to the inevitable with their road pedals. As well as the usual double-sided SPD's I've also used the type with a conventional pedal on one side and SPD on the other. What does surprise me on reflection is that during the period when I had both toe clips and SPD's in regular use, I never forgot what was going on down there.

I used the Look system for about three months when I went over from toeclips,they were so inconvenient not only on the bike but off it,I nearly wnt back to toeclips but was due some new shoes anyway and was persuaded to give double sided SPD's a try,I've have never Looked(sorry) back since :)
Last edited by reohn2 on 7 Nov 2017, 2:46pm, edited 1 time in total.
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old_windbag
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Re: It's green, so off we go - or do we?

Postby old_windbag » 7 Nov 2017, 2:46pm

I made the move to clipless pedals about 3 months after getting my first bike. I chose shimano m324 style pedals, flat cage with spd on one side. I thought that would keep my options open as to riding in normal trainers etc. Move on to around 20yrs later and temporarily reverting to a bike with standard non clipless pedals :o , what a surprise and not very pleasant. It felt really odd especially with the urge to pull on the pedals, I'd get used to it again but simply wouldn't want to.

kwackers
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Re: It's green, so off we go - or do we?

Postby kwackers » 7 Nov 2017, 2:51pm

Personally I can't stick spd's.
I like riding in lightweight running shoes, they keep my feet cool. I also like moving my feet around on the pedals, spd's stop that.
Finally I like walking around in comfy shoes without sounding like a donkey (and particularly shoes that bend instead of bits of wood).

Plenty of very grippy pedals out there, I simply don't see the need. My spd's are gather dust in the attic and have been for a number of years.
(I used to use toe clips many years ago but these days they seem like more hassle than they're worth.)

reohn2
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Re: It's green, so off we go - or do we?

Postby reohn2 » 7 Nov 2017, 2:53pm

old_windbag wrote:I made the move to clipless pedals about 3 months after getting my first bike. I chose shimano m324 style pedals, flat cage with spd on one side. I thought that would keep my options open as to riding in normal trainers etc. Move on to around 20yrs later and temporarily reverting to a bike with standard non clipless pedals :o , what a surprise and not very pleasant. It felt really odd especially with the urge to pull on the pedals, I'd get used to it again but simply wouldn't want to.

I tried a pair of M324's on a hack without success,Iike you I just couldn't get used to not being clipped in after 20+years of double sided SPD's,and when I did want to clip in the bl@@dy pedal was always downside up :x ,so went back to bliss,of double sided SPD's :D
PS,what did suprise me using flats was how much I did pull up when clipped in
Last edited by reohn2 on 7 Nov 2017, 2:55pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kwackers
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Re: It's green, so off we go - or do we?

Postby kwackers » 7 Nov 2017, 2:55pm

reohn2 wrote:I tried a pair of M324's on a hack without success,Iike you I just couldn't get used to not being clipped in after 20+years of double sided SPD's,and when I did want to clip in the bl@@dy pedal was always downside up :x ,so went back to bliss,of double sided SPD's :D

Could have had mine. For some reason mine were always clip side up. :lol:

old_windbag
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Re: It's green, so off we go - or do we?

Postby old_windbag » 7 Nov 2017, 3:03pm

kwackers wrote:Plenty of very grippy pedals out there, I simply don't see the need.


I find they really are a boon when wanting to "pull" with the opposite leg such as in hill climbing where you can get a good rythm using the clipless pedals. Moving feet around, well as much as you are more tied you still have varying degrees of float by cleats chosen. So you can still move a few degrees each side( think its 6-12 degrees or thereabout ). I find they have more advantages than disadvantages for my bike riding.

kwackers
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Re: It's green, so off we go - or do we?

Postby kwackers » 7 Nov 2017, 3:35pm

old_windbag wrote:
kwackers wrote:Plenty of very grippy pedals out there, I simply don't see the need.


I find they really are a boon when wanting to "pull" with the opposite leg such as in hill climbing where you can get a good rythm using the clipless pedals. Moving feet around, well as much as you are more tied you still have varying degrees of float by cleats chosen. So you can still move a few degrees each side( think its 6-12 degrees or thereabout ). I find they have more advantages than disadvantages for my bike riding.

Turning your feet a few degrees isn't really "moving around". I move my feet around on the pedals, move them inboard, move them outboard, forward, back.
Rotation, probably not so much.

As for hills, depends on how long it is. Short hills I just hammer, more pulling on the bars and forcing the legs down at full RPM so nothing to be gained by the ability to pull (IMO).
Long hills; CV is the limiting factor long before I run out of go in my legs so pulling wouldn't help.

I tried them for a while, I just don't rate them. Too many disadvantages and I couldn't find any advantages.
(I hate wearing shoes at the best of time, perhaps it's that.)

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bigjim
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Re: It's green, so off we go - or do we?

Postby bigjim » 7 Nov 2017, 4:42pm

I had a bad knee at one point so went to flats for a while and the knee problem did clear up. But I found using a soft trainer type of shoe, that I suffered from sore heel tendons. Due I suppose to the heel area having no support, so tending to droop off the back of the pedal. I cured that by buying a very stiff leather heel and sole shoe from Sports Direct and even managed to tour with them. However been back on Spds for a few years now without problems but I was happy enough with flats.
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mjr
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Re: It's green, so off we go - or do we?

Postby mjr » 7 Nov 2017, 5:36pm

kwackers wrote:As someone who rides in normal shoes, SPD users drive me nuts moving away from lights.

I like to get going and across the lights asap, not start to move off and then have to wait for someone to click in. It doesn't help that they all seem to start in a high gear so even when they're clipped in they still take an age to get going.

Oh that's because most SPD users love TLAs so they're using STIs too and can't overshift or standing-shift to get a sensible gear.

kwackers wrote:(You can really annoy the lycra crowd by overtaking them whilst they're trying to get going. Nothing says red rag to a bull more than a grey haired old bloke in jeans and t-shirt on a tourer acclerating away from them at the lights :lol: )

It's quite amusing on the flat or a slight downhill with an AW hub, with the wide gear spacing giving a noticeable acceleration kick on each upshift that takes the 2x11 crowd three shifts to match :lol: Sure, they've got a higher top speed, but who pedals 40+mph in town?

bigjim wrote:I've never come across this ,cyclists delay at lights when clipping in, or not noticed it.

Then try checking behind you for angry faces of those on hub gears with flat pedals :lol:

old_windbag wrote:I find they really are a boon when wanting to "pull" with the opposite leg

Unless you're talking about doing stunt riding with only one leg, you ain't gonna pull up in practice. Even the best pros in the world can only just do it enough to be measurable in the lab and then they're sacrificing efficiency to do it. Most riders, most of the time, are merely "unweighting" the rising foot, which sort of makes sense if you think about equal and opposite reactions - what's going to be pushing to balance that pulling force?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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pyruse
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Re: It's green, so off we go - or do we?

Postby pyruse » 7 Nov 2017, 5:38pm

Commute in normal clothes and shoes - problem solved!
You also save lots of time getting changed at the other end; just don;t ride too fast and you won't get sweaty.

reohn2
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Re: It's green, so off we go - or do we?

Postby reohn2 » 7 Nov 2017, 5:41pm

The best way to learn to be in the right gear when starting off is some tandem riding,you soon learn to get it right,if you don't the stoker soon lets you know :?
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old_windbag
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Re: It's green, so off we go - or do we?

Postby old_windbag » 7 Nov 2017, 6:44pm

mjr wrote: you ain't gonna pull up in practice.


perhaps I should have found a better word but when I pedal I pedal a fixed path governed by my crank. In effect I have two pistons where one is at max torque when crank horizontal and its opposite number is on the rising stroke( normally relaxed ). I can balance the force across both legs in a more controlled manner and aim for a smoother pedalling style when clipped in. You could pedal one legged( a turbo exercise that people do ) but with two legs you can share force between the two legs in a better way possibly reducing the average peak force of one leg that being unclipped may see. So you can use being clipped in to get better overall use of your legs. If I can push 100N, then I can practice pulling 50 and pushing 50, in reality the amount per leg wouldn't be that extreme. If I pushed both legs at midstroke then they would be opposing forces and the crank would be dead stopped but on a fixed crank push and pull will be acting as a moment around the crank centre, the flex of shoes etc may limit some benefit hence stiff shoes. I think that any system that binds you to the crank lets you vary the crank forces in a better way than free pedals. Or is it my imagination and the sales pitch.

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mjr
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Re: It's green, so off we go - or do we?

Postby mjr » 7 Nov 2017, 7:24pm

old_windbag wrote:Or is it my imagination and the sales pitch.

Yep. Try finding the lab test results.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.