2 abreast riding

[Tangled Metal]

On a nice day like today why was the OP in a car?

It's all been said before, anything which delays motorised traffic for a nano second is obviously thoughtless, crazy and not allowed - we can't win whatever we do.

We don't need to adopt either of the extremes. It is surely just a matter of exercising a bit of discretion, singling out when it can help someone else without any cost to you, but staying two abreast when it makes more sense.

Well said. It's not about not holding up the motorized traffic it's about being considerate.

If it's no big deal whether you ride single file or 2 abreast then knowing when each group riding style is best costs the cyclists nothing and it's simply being considerate road users to think about others.

I bet you would like all motorized traffic to be considerate to you when on your bike. It does go the other way too. I'd prefer to lead by example and do the best option for all.

BTW what is the best option in the OP's situation?

[tykeboy2003]

If the road is wide enough then cars can overtake a single rider in the face of oncoming traffic while still giving plenty of elbow room.

There aren't many main A roads wide enough to allow a car to pass a single cyclist riding in the correct position in the face of oncoming traffic. Do the maths.

Kerb to cyclist 1m (minimum)
cyclist to passing vehicle 1.5m (minimum)
width of 2 cars (not considering wider vehicles here) 3.8m
gap between cars 1.5m (minimum)
gap between oncoming vehicle and kerb 1m.

Total 8.8m (28.5 feet). That's an awfully wide road (DOT guidance for new roads says 7.5m for roads carrying bus routes).

[Cyril Haearn]

In a bus one sits 4/5 abreast!

[mjr]

BTW what is the best option in the OP's situation?

Wait for sufficient gap in oncoming traffic, then overtake the double-file cyclists! As far as I can recall (from driving it) or tell from satellite pics, the A6 near Buxton is not wide enough to pass cyclists in-lane safely (more of it now appears double white-lined or shadow-islanded than I remember), but it's wide enough that I think plenty of motorists would try if a group rode single file on the left.

If someone gets "frustrated" by having to wait for a safe gap to overtake a vulnerable road user, their driving licence should be taken away before they do harm.

[Vorpal]

A survey of drivers carried out by eBikes Direct has found that many are becoming enraged through lack of understanding of cyclists’ rights on the roads. While 39 per cent confessed to having become angry with a cyclist, sizeable percentages had misconceptions about what cyclists are and aren’t allowed to do.

http://road.cc/content/news/223233-driv ... nds-survey

[Bmblbzzz]

The only ones who might feel put out by this are the aggressive morons who would attempt to squeeze themselves though the gap between cyclists and oncoming vehicles.

TrevA doesn't come across as that and he obviously disliked it enough to start a thread.
It is a hard one, my safety comes first, but having a frustrated driver behind me does nothing for that. We tend to single out and leave a two car gap between groups of around 4 to 6, some cars get that and use it, others just see it as a longer impossible to pass line.

Not quite. He said he understands how motorists don't like it, not that he disliked it himself.

I've been out into Derbyshire today in the car and encountered a number of small groups of cyclists riding 2 abreast on busy main roads. I know that strictly speaking they are entitled to do this, but I can see how it winds motorists up, as it's very difficult to get past. I often cycle with my wife as a pair, and we do ride 2 abreast but only on quiet country lanes. We will single out on busy roads or where a queue of traffic is building up behind us.

[pwa]

It's pretty rare that a car is fully occupied and driver-only is pretty common. Extra seats and the accompanying bodywork are lugged around, "just in case." Any driver who feels that there's insufficient room when they have to share roadspace with cyclists should be grateful that they aren't sharing the space with another car, especially a parked car with no seats occupied at all.

A thread like this simply reminds us that there are two ends to every spyglass.

I'd sooner throw the spyglass away and look at it as one person sharing a strip of tarmac with others. There are quite a few roads around here where I can overtake a cyclist giving them plenty of room, but too narrow for me to do the same with a pair riding side by side. So if I encounter the latter I will stay back and follow them until they single out or take a turning different to mine. In practice most cyclists I encounter around here when I am driving are considerate and single out when it becomes safe to do so. Or maybe they just prefer not to have a motor vehicle following them.

People are people, whatever their vehicle. I demand motor vehicle users see me that way when I'm on the bike, so it would be hypocrisy for me not to see motorists that way. Just other people.

[amediasatex]

it was about 2 miles before we could overtake safely.

It all comes down to this...

If it would have been possible to safely overtake them had they been single file then it would have been courteous (but not required) for the cyclists to single out*.

If it would not have been possible to safely overtake them even if single file then staying doubled up is safer for everyone, the cyclists because it prevents/discourages an unsafe overtake, and safer for the driver and cars coming the other way because if they do decide to overtake the group is shorter.

*one challenge that is often not appreciated is that even in a small group of say 4-6 riders, byt the time you've assessed if it's appropriate to single out or not, communicated that to the rest of the group (if possible!), and started to single out then the moment may have passed, inadvertently trapping you in the situation of effectively saying "overtake me now" to the driver behind right at the worst possible moment. Sometimes it's better to wait...

[Cyril Haearn]

Usually it is better to wait, one never knows if another group of cyclists is hidden by the next bend

Une train peut cache une autre!

[Vorpal]

There are quite a few roads around here where I can overtake a cyclist giving them plenty of room, but too narrow for me to do the same with a pair riding side by side.

Even a cyclist in close-pass-mat postion + 1.5 metres means that the overtaking vehicle is 2.2 metres from the edge/kerb. That plus typical (not large) vehicle width and you are out to 4 metres. That is over the centreline of every road I can recall, except this one

The vast majority of roads I have used are 2.8 metres or less in each direction. Many rural lanes are less than 4 metres overall width.

That means that on 99% of the roads I've seen in the UK, it makes not one jot of difference whether cyclists ride two abreast or singled out. It's only driver perception that makes any difference. The remaining 1% (ok, it might be 2 or 3%) is mostly made up of lanes that are too narrow for two abreast to share with a car going in either direction, but wide enough for a cyclist and a car to share safely.

[pwa]

There are quite a few roads around here where I can overtake a cyclist giving them plenty of room, but too narrow for me to do the same with a pair riding side by side.

Even a cyclist in close-pass-mat postion + 1.5 metres means that the overtaking vehicle is 2.2 metres from the edge/kerb. That plus typical (not large) vehicle width and you are out to 4 metres. The is over the centreline of every road I can recall, except this one

The vast majority of roads I have used are 2.8 metres or less in each direction. Many rural lanes are less than 4 metres overall width.

That means that on 99% of the roads I've seen in the UK, it makes not one jot of difference whether cyclists ride two abreast or singled out. It's only driver perception that makes any difference. The remaining 1% (ok, it might be 2 or 3%) is mostly made up of lanes that are too narrow for two abreast to share with a car going in either direction, but wide enough for a cyclist and a car to share safely.

We have lots of lanes around here and they vary widely in width. Standards do not apply. And yes, there are quite a few where a safe driver could pass a solo cyclist considerately but have to stay behind a pair riding abreast. Cyclists on those lanes are, in the main, singling out when they see fit, so it is not a huge problem.

[foxyrider]

I've been out today and enjoyed almost traffic free riding for 90km. Some of those roads a car could easily overtake safely, even TAB riding without crossing the centreline (the NCB really did like wide roads!). OTOH I also used lanes with grass down the middle where a single bike and car would struggle to pass.

It's never as simple as should do this when that. I think i've experienced pretty much every scenario over the years on every type of road and group size. My own brother is always complaining about bikes spread all over one particular Peak District climb he commutes up - he can't get it in his head that they might all be individuals and not one single group that has split up to annoy him! I'm pretty sure his stand point is fairly typical - he could even take an alternate route that far fewer bikes use that is straighter and wider but nope he'd rather bitch about a couple of riders 'holding him up'.

Personally I think cars should be banned from the National Park area, they only cause conflict, bring more grockles to an already crowded area and contribute very little to the local economy.

[pwa]

I've been out today and enjoyed almost traffic free riding for 90km. Some of those roads a car could easily overtake safely, even TAB riding without crossing the centreline (the NCB really did like wide roads!). OTOH I also used lanes with grass down the middle where a single bike and car would struggle to pass.

It's never as simple as should do this when that. I think i've experienced pretty much every scenario over the years on every type of road and group size. My own brother is always complaining about bikes spread all over one particular Peak District climb he commutes up - he can't get it in his head that they might all be individuals and not one single group that has split up to annoy him! I'm pretty sure his stand point is fairly typical - he could even take an alternate route that far fewer bikes use that is straighter and wider but nope he'd rather bitch about a couple of riders 'holding him up'.

Personally I think cars should be banned from the National Park area, they only cause conflict, bring more grockles to an already crowded area and contribute very little to the local economy.

Controversial!

But I agree that circumstances vary so much that it is not useful trying to produce a simple set of rules on this.

[hjd10]

You have to judge the road and the traffic on the day,
And my own list of priorities for road position are
1 what is the safe
2 can I be courteous
3 don't stop other people going about their business.
1 is paramount whether in groups or alone.2 don't hold people up unnecessary they get annoyed.3 the person your holding up could be, the local doctor,or midwife

Nuke

+1

If on the bike I try to avoid unnecessary conflicts with motorists. The likelihood is, I will end up in a worse situation than they will.
Most motorists acknowledge polite and courteous cyclists however we know there are some that don't!

[Pete Owens]

I've no problem with short delays, but one particular pair were 2 abreast on the A6 near Bakewell and it was about 2 miles before we could overtake safely.

From my memory of the A6 through the Peak District - the road is not wide enough to safely overtake a single cyclist in the face of oncoming traffic. This makes it an unpleasant road to ride because a minority of motorists will attempt to do so through a gap that is physically possible but not sufficiently wide. I would also be astounded if the traffic was sooooo busy that there was no opportunity to overtake for 2 miles.

The only stretch I can think of where it would be inconsiderate to ride 2 abreast is here:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.1895281,-1.639181,3a,75y,255.57h,86.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1siMmdlsJPzkAY-WdAC7Xcow!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DiMmdlsJPzkAY-WdAC7Xcow%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D185.31876%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656
but that is only a quarter of a mile. 2 miles would be all the way to Bakewell.