Must overtake, bicycle...

[reohn2]

It's tempting to write these drivers off as idiots, but I don't think it's really the case. I've been a passenger with perfectly intelligent people at the wheel with at least average driving skills...but when it comes to dealing with cyclists, they just haven't got a clue.

Maybe there should be more in driving lessons and tests to combat this ignorance. But also, I think bikes are pretty incompatible with cars and lorries on our congested roads, they are just never going to mix well. So cyclists have to keep themselves safe as best they can.

If you ever have a close pass by a driving school car try phoning them to complain,you'll soon find out where the problem lies.
On the four occassions I've done so Ive had nothing but abuse or total denial,including one private school who's owner told me :
"I shouldn't be on the _king road"

Try complaining to the DVLA they supervise driving instructors and will investigate complaints about individual instructors and have the power to remove them from the -Approved Driving Instructors register

I'm pretty sure they'd want/need evidence and as the police don't act on reports with witnesses or even video evidence,I won't be holding my breath.
Its a couple of years since the last encounter but Ill bear in mind your advice.

[oldmanonabike]

If you ever have a close pass by a driving school car try phoning them to complain,you'll soon find out where the problem lies.
On the four occassions I've done so Ive had nothing but abuse or total denial,including one private school who's owner told me :
"I shouldn't be on the _king road"

Try complaining to the DVLA they supervise driving instructors and will investigate complaints about individual instructors and have the power to remove them from the -Approved Driving Instructors register

I'm pretty sure they'd want/need evidence and as the police don't act on reports with witnesses or even video evidence,I won't be holding my breath.
Its a couple of years since the last encounter but Ill bear in mind your advice.

DVLA don't ask for police assistance. Approved Driving Instructors are subject to continuous supervision throughout their careers
with DVLA inspectors accompanying them during driving lessons to check the quality of their instruction . Any complaints would be investigated and records kept,repeated complaints would result in action being taken.Training is very rigorous,not only theory tests but a very advanced driving test and having to 'teach' a DVLA inspector how to drive, spotting and correcting any errors made. I cannot see how a learner driver with or without motorcycle experience can be more knowledgeable about the Highway Code or what standard of driving is required to pass a driving test than an ADI.
I know some people find it hard to believe but some ADI's are also cyclists

[tykeboy2003]

Yossarian

Is there a catch?

[Cyril Haearn]

*Theory* is very much the word here I think

When a DI is accompanied by an inspector he may act differently

What I remember: trying to understand the biting point on the clutch, reversing round corners, instructor grabbed the wheel when I tried to take the wrong exit at a kidney-shaped roundabout, using handbrake clutch etc in the right order

Teaching someone to drive must be very difficult under the best of circumstances. I think the first lessons should be taken away from public roads, maybe on converted airfields


Saw a job that might suit someone who likes driving: VW needs to check how new vehicles wear after many kilometers, there is a private test track in the woods with curves and hills, the vehicles do 100+ kmh 24/7 and soon reach 100 000 km

[tykeboy2003]

Approved Driving Instructors are subject to continuous supervision throughout their careers

I have suffered several close passes from school cars recently and on all occasions there was only one person (the instructor I assume) in the car. I am not impressed by this "continuous supervision" of which you speak.

[oldmanonabike]

Approved Driving Instructors are subject to continuous supervision throughout their careers

I have suffered several close passes from school cars recently and on all occasions there was only one person (the instructor I assume) in the car. I am not impressed by this "continuous supervision" of which you speak.

If it's not reported nothing will happen

[tykeboy2003]

If it's not reported nothing will happen

Who should I report it to? The police would take no notice whatsoever.

[kwackers]

I had one this morning.
Coming up to a (large) island, I'm going straight(ish) on so am taking primary in the left lane and slowing for the queuing traffic when a car comes alongside indicating to pull left.
I refuse to yield and he's forced to drop back, but not before he's had a session on his horn and done a bit of gesticulating.
(There's nothing behind me and he'd had several hundred yards to decide he wasn't going to sit behind a bike)

[The utility cyclist]

Must overtake car ... just why, what has this person saved, not one jot and then positions themselves poorly, runs the lights (after going over the stop line) and does not for one instance improve their safety, all so that they could 'get in front' http://road.cc/content/news/233247-near ... ys-cyclist
yes the close pass is unacceptable but that doesn't occur if you didn't MGIF in the first instance.

[kwackers]

Must overtake car ... just why, what has this person saved, not one jot and then positions themselves poorly, runs the lights (after going over the stop line) and does not for one instance improve their safety, all so that they could 'get in front' http://road.cc/content/news/233247-near ... ys-cyclist
yes the close pass is unacceptable but that doesn't occur if you didn't MGIF in the first instance.

Three cars is borderline. Personally I'd probably sit behind, but sitting behind doesn't preclude poor overtakes. Five or six cars in a queue, I'd definitely move to the front (at traffic lights).
Running the lights? Technically, but I'd do the same and if you move to the front of a queue you pretty much have to (that's why ASL's exist) otherwise you're sat at the side of a car and that's never a good place.
FWIW I do the same if the front car is a traffic car and they never bat an eyelid.

Ultimately you may not agree with their style of riding but there's nothing intrinsically dangerous about what they did (I presume they knew the timing of the lights).
TBH I'm not even sure how close the overtake was, cameras do some very odd things.

[Phil Fouracre]

I'm always intrigued watching these vids, and reading people's comments on driving and riding skills/decision making. Perhaps it's me, but, I wouldn't have considered cycling like this. How was there any benefit, safety, or otherwise, in squeezing between two cars at this point. Call me simple, but, I'd just have joined the queue in the lane that I wanted, and pulled away when the lights changed, simples! The driver was totally wrong to behave as they did, probably induced by feeling 'hard done by' when the cyclist passed them. There is never any justification for being put at risk by anyone, but, self preservation has to be the top priority in any situation.

[kwackers]

I'm always intrigued watching these vids, and reading people's comments on driving and riding skills/decision making. Perhaps it's me, but, I wouldn't have considered cycling like this. How was there any benefit, safety, or otherwise, in squeezing between two cars at this point. Call me simple, but, I'd just have joined the queue in the lane that I wanted, and pulled away when the lights changed, simples! The driver was totally wrong to behave as they did, probably induced by feeling 'hard done by' when the cyclist passed them. There is never any justification for being put at risk by anyone, but, self preservation has to be the top priority in any situation.

The danger IME is sitting behind too many. If they manage to open a gap before you get to the lights then all it takes is one idiot who starts to worry they won't make the lights before they change.
The gap did look tight, but I suspect it wasn't as tight as it looked just as I suspect the close pass wasn't as close (too close, yes, just not quite as it looked).

As I said 3 would be borderline. I'd need to know the lights and there'd probably need to be a ASL. For some lights I might not be prepared to overtake a dozen even if there's a bike lane leading into an ASL. Every set is different and changes according to conditions.
The problem with videos like these is they don't present you with the nuanced version that you use to make decisions in the real world and thus you can't really decide if the rider was correct or not.

Just to add, the only time I've been knocked off at lights was taking primary and queueing behind traffic. The person behind decided they would definitely get in front even if it meant occupying the same space as me - apparently "what was I supposed to do? You were in the middle of the road." is a perfectly valid reason. Had I nipped up the inside it wouldn't have happened.

[reohn2]

We had two yesterday whilst in the car,both in different places were driving 2ft/60cm,yes that close off my rear bumper.
First was in a 30 limit with a stream of oncoming traffic because man(other descriptions are available) in a Cashcow couldn't wait the half mile to a dual carriageway where he could overtake safely.When he did overtake it was with horn blaring ,a mile down the road we caught him up in the stream of traffic he'd become part of
Second was on a short 1/2 mile twisty almost singletrack road with a couple of on coming cars and a couple of pedestrians walking on the road which has no footpath,what made matters worse was a very low sun behind me so the on coming cars were driving into it and were driving slowly because of the restricted vision,but it made no difference to the impatience of tw@t in a Passat,nor did it make any difference when I showed him the brake lights either.
I'm afraid I lost my rag and gave him the V salute as he overtook,we caught him up at the next TL.

These people have something for brains but it ain't brains!

[Phil Fouracre]

No, I'm sorry, they just don't have any brains!! How else can you describe the sort of incidents you describe? I've had many variations of the same, and know no more than you what the answer is
What worries me most is that you can get abuse screamed at you in a car or on a bike for driving/riding safely and considerately, for holding them up, but, they can then spend ten minutes haranguing you - so, where's the delay?
I've always worked on the theory when I'm riding, that nobody is deliberately out to kill you, the trouble is with these sorts of situations, you really can start to believe that this is actually no longer true! Self preservation is all well and good, but, at what point will it start to effect the enjoyment and whole point of cycling??

[reohn2]

No, I'm sorry, they just don't have any brains!! How else can you describe the sort of incidents you describe? I've had many variations of the same, and know no more than you what the answer is
What worries me most is that you can get abuse screamed at you in a car or on a bike for driving/riding safely and considerately, for holding them up, but, they can then spend ten minutes haranguing you - so, where's the delay?
I've always worked on the theory when I'm riding, that nobody is deliberately out to kill you, the trouble is with these sorts of situations, you really can start to believe that this is actually no longer true! Self preservation is all well and good, but, at what point will it start to effect the enjoyment and whole point of cycling??

Sorry to say it,but it has already affected me very badly