Group Rides - being left behind

[RickH]

Thank you to all those that replied to my question and I was interested in them and feel a little better having read them.
Not a place to mention the particular club concerned but some years ago I joined them on this 15 mile ride so called flat ride, which it was until the last 1.5 miles and then it was a drag up hill.
Needless to say that was the only time as I never went out with them again. It did leave me with a feeling of inadequacy so it was nice to read that it was perhaps pushing the limits for an over weight 60+ year old fella. Just a shame that the club continue to use this ride as I am sure it must inhibit any recruitment drives they have.

I think beginners stuff (at least not in a sense that the public at large would understand the term) is often not a forte of CTC/Cycling UK groups.

It makes me shake my head when I cycle to something in a neighbouring town about 5 miles away and people seem to think I have performed some superhuman feat (but then I've been cycling for years). One friend used to almost always ask me if I wanted a lift home! I think a lot of it (apart from the 1.5 mile uphill finish) is in people's heads - once you've done 5 miles and not died then maybe you can manage a bit more, then a bit more...

Perception of flat can be somewhat subjective too, depending both on fitness and where, if at all, you are used to cycling.

[hondated]

Thank you to all those that replied to my question and I was interested in them and feel a little better having read them.
Not a place to mention the particular club concerned but some years ago I joined them on this 15 mile ride so called flat ride, which it was until the last 1.5 miles and then it was a drag up hill.
Needless to say that was the only time as I never went out with them again. It did leave me with a feeling of inadequacy so it was nice to read that it was perhaps pushing the limits for an over weight 60+ year old fella. Just a shame that the club continue to use this ride as I am sure it must inhibit any recruitment drives they have.

I think beginners stuff (at least not in a sense that the public at large would understand the term) is often not a forte of CTC/Cycling UK groups.

It makes me shake my head when I cycle to something in a neighbouring town about 5 miles away and people seem to think I have performed some superhuman feat (but then I've been cycling for years). One friend used to almost always ask me if I wanted a lift home! I think a lot of it (apart from the 1.5 mile uphill finish) is in people's heads - once you've done 5 miles and not died then maybe you can manage a bit more, then a bit more...

Perception of flat can be somewhat subjective too, depending both on fitness and where, if at all, you are used to cycling.

Thanks RickH for your response and I do feel I now need to clarify something I was not referring to my local CTC as they cater for whatever speed most people ride at and do not specify any particular speed for a given route, I was actually referring to a local cycling club. ( Edited because original was changed on posting somehow by me )

[TrevA]

Perception of flat can be somewhat subjective too, depending both on fitness and where, if at all, you are used to cycling.

I can attest to the above. I've just started riding again after 4 months off the bike. Any semblance of fitness has disappeared. Roads that I previously considered to be as flat as a pancake, turn out to have annoying little rises that put me into the red when cycling in a group.

[661-Pete]

It makes me shake my head when I cycle to something in a neighbouring town about 5 miles away and people seem to think I have performed some superhuman feat....

Tell me all about it! I've recently (in my dotage) taken up playing bridge again, cycling all of one mile (mostly flat) to the venue once a week. Needless to say, my fellow-players throw up their hands in astonishment at this Herculean feat! And these are the same people who moan about how much the car park costs, and how they always pay for exactly three hours parking, so at the end of the three-hour bridge session they have to dash out to avoid getting ticketed....

Luckily, at least one other player also cycles to bridge, about the same distance as I do, so this unwanted attention is at least split between her and me! And recently, I've been trying out a different bridge club, in a neighbouring town all of three miles away. I wonder if I dare admit to the folks there, that I cycle those three miles?

As to being dropped from groups - been there done that! Most memorable instance, for me, was about ten years ago. I'd stupidly met up for a ride in strange territory, sans map (or smartphone or other nav. aid). There was a tail-end-charlie supposedly to catch stragglers, unfortunately he was dropped too. Oh well. For a while I was quite on my own, I got to a junction with no idea which way to turn! Luckily the TEC caught me there, we went on and stopped in a village (which the rest of the bunch must have breezed through ten minutes earlier) for a cup of tea and a cake - whilst he did his best to get through to the leaders and plead with them to wait for us! (we eventually were allowed to catch up, miles further along). I was so taken with this episode that I wrote it into a novel (as yet unfinished) that I was writing at the time! Perhaps one day I'll finish it and publish. If so, names will be changed to protect the guilty (and me from libel lawyers)

[drossall]

You would not join a tennis club and expect to play among their most skilled players. I started riding in the late 60s (CTC) and whilst you were looked after you were expected to improve which is done by stretching yourself. In the late 70s I moved house and rode with a different DA. One year they decided to ride at the pace of the slowest. Hence the slow rider never got stretched so never improved and dropped out of cycling, and in the meantime the core riders had got bored and gone riding elsewhere.

I think that's fair. A club that wants to be successful needs to keep both its new riders and its long-serving ones. If you're constantly riding at the speed of a newbie, that may not be much fun.

Offering a range of rides, with expectations set, is good. So is having a slowest ride that doesn't leave people behind. Or special starter rides. But you wouldn't tell your best players, in any sport, that they had to play down to starter level all the time.

My first club run was with the Altrincham Ravens in the late 70s. My brother was keen to try it and we both went out. They did 70 miles and had to push us part of the way. To be fair, they didn't leave us till they'd got us near home, to a pub where we could ring for a lift, but I think we probably spoiled the ride for some of them.

Didn't stop us joining (him the Ravens, me a different club, but that was about where we had connections, not about the club runs).

[TrevA]

You would not join a tennis club and expect to play among their most skilled players. I started riding in the late 60s (CTC) and whilst you were looked after you were expected to improve which is done by stretching yourself. In the late 70s I moved house and rode with a different DA. One year they decided to ride at the pace of the slowest. Hence the slow rider never got stretched so never improved and dropped out of cycling, and in the meantime the core riders had got bored and gone riding elsewhere.

I think that's fair. A club that wants to be successful needs to keep both its new riders and its long-serving ones. If you're constantly riding at the speed of a newbie, that may not be much fun.

Offering a range of rides, with expectations set, is good. So is having a slowest ride that doesn't leave people behind. Or special starter rides. But you wouldn't tell your best players, in any sport, that they had to play down to starter level all the time.

My first club run was with the Altrincham Ravens in the late 70s. My brother was keen to try it and we both went out. They did 70 miles and had to push us part of the way. To be fair, they didn't leave us till they'd got us near home, to a pub where we could ring for a lift, but I think we probably spoiled the ride for some of them.

Didn't stop us joining (him the Ravens, me a different club, but that was about where we had connections, not about the club runs).

In our club we have a slow ride 12-13mph and a faster ride -about 16mph. Some established riders go on the slow ride, if they fancy an easier ride. However, we are not very tolerant of people who choose the faster ride and then can't keep up, demanding that everyone else slows down. That defeats the object of having 2 rides.

I'm currently on the slow ride as I'm building up my fitness after having some time off.

[horizon]

I was thinking about this again on my way home the other night. I don't ride with a group or club and never have (though I did lots of family rides).

If a group of say 30 splits into two, fast and slow, then logically it could split again into four groups and so on until, yes, you have have 30 "groups" of one rider with each person going at the pace that suits them best. Some people just don't like cycling alone but that does seem to be in the nature of a bicycle ride.

I think group riding should be re-thought so that slower riders can join in order to improve (and therefore have to work hard to keep up - it is a huge benefit). The faster riders OTOH must realise that they have a role in the group - to help others improve. If they want to ride fast then why not pluck up the courage and ride on their own or with a very small group of one or two others?

The darker side of me suspects that some fast riders need slower riders to demonstrate their prowess .

I am sure that there is lots of compromise and things settle down but there is plenty of disquiet out there as well.

[Vorpal]

I used to belong to a club that has several rides during the week. I mostly went on the club runs and family rides. It was our club runs that sometimes split. We usually agreed at the beginning of the ride to split & meet up at a lunch stop. Occasionally, we set a goal for the ride that turned out to be too much for some of us, because of weather, or other reasons, and then we would agree at a later point (often lunch) to split.

The same club also ran 2 or 3 'training' rides per week, and weekly club time trials. One of the training rides was usually for improvers; that is, those who wanted to improve fitness, learn to ride faster, etc. A reasonable contingent of experienced racing cyclists also went along on the improvers ride, to help the improvers, and have an easy training day.

The weekly time trials are used the same way for many members. The weekly time trials are almost as social as the club runs, though some members take them rather seriously and are quite comptetive.

[Cyril Haearn]

Depends whether one wants to potter along or suffer and get stronger and faster

Try explaining that to a non-cyclist

[Boring_Username]

I haven't read all the posts so this point may already have been made, but a group travelling all at the same pace can, to some degree, suit both stronger and weaker riders if the stronger riders do more time on the front and the weaker riders stay in the group.

[CyberKnight]

You would not join a tennis club and expect to play among their most skilled players. I started riding in the late 60s (CTC) and whilst you were looked after you were expected to improve which is done by stretching yourself. In the late 70s I moved house and rode with a different DA. One year they decided to ride at the pace of the slowest. Hence the slow rider never got stretched so never improved and dropped out of cycling, and in the meantime the core riders had got bored and gone riding elsewhere.

I think that's fair. A club that wants to be successful needs to keep both its new riders and its long-serving ones. If you're constantly riding at the speed of a newbie, that may not be much fun.

Offering a range of rides, with expectations set, is good. So is having a slowest ride that doesn't leave people behind. Or special starter rides. But you wouldn't tell your best players, in any sport, that they had to play down to starter level all the time.

My first club run was with the Altrincham Ravens in the late 70s. My brother was keen to try it and we both went out. They did 70 miles and had to push us part of the way. To be fair, they didn't leave us till they'd got us near home, to a pub where we could ring for a lift, but I think we probably spoiled the ride for some of them.

Didn't stop us joining (him the Ravens, me a different club, but that was about where we had connections, not about the club runs).

In our club we have a slow ride 12-13mph and a faster ride -about 16mph. Some established riders go on the slow ride, if they fancy an easier ride. However, we are not very tolerant of people who choose the faster ride and then can't keep up, demanding that everyone else slows down. That defeats the object of having 2 rides.

I'm currently on the slow ride as I'm building up my fitness after having some time off.

Wow i wish my club had rids that level, it would really help get newer riders to join.
My local club slow = 14 mph, medium= 16 mph, fast = 18 mph , elites = 20 +, the fast tends not to run in winter so your either pulling at the front of the medium or getting left in the wilderness by the elites.

[CyberKnight]

Depends whether one wants to potter along or suffer and get stronger and faster

Try explaining that to a non-cyclist

#
Indeed, when i commute i take the return trip either hammer down or just spinning home, although even the wife doesnt understand why i choose to cycle on night shift when i have access to the family car .

[mjr]

I think group riding should be re-thought so that slower riders can join in order to improve (and therefore have to work hard to keep up - it is a huge benefit).

I think it should be re-thought by rejecting the idea implicit in the above, that fast=good or faster=improvement, and realising that what's important is people having fun and speed is determined by many factors, including ability/disability and aptitude. http://lovelybike.blogspot.co.uk/2018/01/aptitude.html

There are plenty of things that faster riders can do to slow down to ride with a group (including carrying enough clothes not to get cold riding below threshold, or riding repeats or detours as described above, or simply spinning a very low gear) but little that some slower riders can do to go faster and it's important not to exclude them(us?) from the joys of group touring.

[[XAP]Bob]

In our club we have a slow ride 12-13mph and a faster ride -about 16mph. Some established riders go on the slow ride, if they fancy an easier ride. However, we are not very tolerant of people who choose the faster ride and then can't keep up, demanding that everyone else slows down. That defeats the object of having 2 rides.

That's fine - you have the 12-13mph ride available.
You may want to consider the occasional '14-15 mph version' of the 16, where you encourage people who feel a little held back by the 12-13 to join the faster ride, but allow that ride to slow slightly if needed. 13-> 16 seems like quite a jump, and that may be fine (go from breaking the air in the 12-13 to riding in the pack of the 16...

[mjr]

That's fine - you have the 12-13mph ride available.

12-13mph still isn't slow, though, as several of us mention above!