Group Rides - being left behind

[TrevA]

In our club we have a slow ride 12-13mph and a faster ride -about 16mph. Some established riders go on the slow ride, if they fancy an easier ride. However, we are not very tolerant of people who choose the faster ride and then can't keep up, demanding that everyone else slows down. That defeats the object of having 2 rides.

That's fine - you have the 12-13mph ride available.
You may want to consider the occasional '14-15 mph version' of the 16, where you encourage people who feel a little held back by the 12-13 to join the faster ride, but allow that ride to slow slightly if needed. 13-> 16 seems like quite a jump, and that may be fine (go from breaking the air in the 12-13 to riding in the pack of the 16...

What's really needed is a 14-15 intermediate group. I used to lead such a group. But I've had time off the bike recently and I'm still building up my fitness, so still riding with the 12-13 group. It's very difficult to hold back the faster riders.

Hoping to start my group back up again soon. We do suffer from a lack of people willing to lead rides. I don't know if it's lack of confidence or lack of knowledge of the roads. Some people do seem to be navigationally challenged and get lost if they become detached from the group, even though we always go to the same cafe on Saturdays, though not via the same route.

My wife gets completely lost unless she has a Garmin route to follow, even on roads she's ridden dozens of times.

[tatanab]

12-13mph still isn't slow, though, as several of us mention above!

Depends how you measure it. Many years ago I rode with a club that graded its rides according to speed on the flat. A particular grade was 12-14mph. Note, this is on the flat; add in hills and rough tracks perhaps and the average speed is lower by quite a way. I now live in a hilly area and ride a heavy old beast as my hack; on a couple of hours ride my average is 13-14mph which requires some effort due to terrain and the weight I carry about.

Distance is also a problem to newcomers, possibly more of a problem. A 20 mile ride is absolutely no distance at all to me but to a newcomer that can seem a long way.

As I have written in the past - why do people think they should be able to get on a bike and join an established group without getting some miles and some fitness in their legs beforehand?

[mjr]

As I have written in the past - why do people think they should be able to get on a bike and join an established group without getting some miles and some fitness in their legs beforehand?

Three examples: Because the group ride said "all welcome"? Because groups doing other activities explicitly label themselves as specialist if they're not open to newcomers? Because group riding is a great way to do some miles and some fitness (in legs, or arms if you're a handcyclist, or possibly there are other ways to power a cycle I'm not thinking of) without doing boring boring loops or risking common misadventures like straying onto a quasi-motorway or known collision blackspot?

If no established groups in an area offer freewheeling none-left-behind rides, isn't that elitist and a huge missed opportunity?

[TrevA]

We say our rides are suitable for newcomers, but we are careful not to say "All Welcome". We don't want people turning up on shopping bikes, though we have several people on heavy hybrids who can keep up. Our rides are almost completely flat. We have one climb out of the river valley on the way out, but after that it's flat apart from the odd bridge. We have a super-easy section who set off 5 minutes early to climb the hill at their own pace, then meet the easy section at the top.

Other clubs in the area offer supposedly slow rides but these are often faster than our fast rides - 17 mph +.

There's a balance to be struck between having a ride that's Ok for newcomers and still acceptable for your established club members. Hopefully, we have got that balance about right. We certainly get some people coming to join us, who've tried riding with other clubs but can't keep up, whereas they can with us.

Our Saturday rides are 25 miles from and to the meeting point, but with a cafe stop at 15 miles. The faster group will do 30 miles in total and we all meet at the same cafe.

[Vorpal]

As I have written in the past - why do people think they should be able to get on a bike and join an established group without getting some miles and some fitness in their legs beforehand?

Maybe because they won't get any miles, if they don't have a group ride to motivate them?
Many people find the social aspects of riding in a group to be motivational. They may find it boring to go out and ride by themselves. Others may lack the confidence to ride alone, even on quiet roads. If such a person has no friends or family willing to cycle with them, what do you recommend they do?

[[XAP]Bob]

If you have enough leaders and riders to do an intermediate ride then that's great - I generally assume that there wouldn't be

12-13 may not be 'slow' or even 'beginners' for some/many. But at least it is an advertised pace!
The fact that the 16mph train will drop you if you lag is mitigated by the fact that dropping people is advertised, and by the fact that there is a slower ride available.

It *does* depend on how rides are advertised, and yes - maybe not having a 'don't leave anyone behind' ride is a missed opportunity (I wonder if any leaders/support riders would consider taking a tow rope with them on such a ride for extreme cases?

[whoof]

If a ride is advertised as 25 miles in length 'all welcome' this clearly means all those who are capable of riding 25 miles are welcome. Many people are either not capable of this or would find it extremely difficult. This is not elitist it's merely a group of like minded people who want to go on a 25 mile bike ride.

Similarly if the group ride is advertised as averaging xx mph then all are welcome who can ride at this speed. If groups wish to expand or retain riders there are many things they can do and lots of good advice in the previous posts. But whatever speed and distance they are there will always be some members of society who would not be capable of this.

[thirdcrank]

... I wonder if any leaders/support riders would consider taking a tow rope with them on such a ride for extreme cases?

No need for a tow-rope: it's possible to push a rider in difficulties without much fuss, although your arm begins to ache after a while. I fancy plenty of members of traditional clubs might have had that helping hand for the last few miles on their first club run.

It all comes down to what you hope to achieve. Attracting lots of new and probably inexperienced riders isn't the same as catering for the sons of older members till they get up to speed.

[[XAP]Bob]

... I wonder if any leaders/support riders would consider taking a tow rope with them on such a ride for extreme cases?

No need for a tow-rope: it's possible to push a rider in difficulties without much fuss, although your arm begins to ache after a while. I fancy plenty of members of traditional clubs might have had that helping hand for the last few miles on their first club run.

It all comes down to what you hope to achieve. Attracting lots of new and probably inexperienced riders isn't the same as catering for the sons of older members till they get up to speed.

That's what tandems are for

[TrevA]

Our slowest ride is at the pace of the slowest, for the faster rides you are expected to be able to ride at the advertised ride speed. If you find that you can't, then for the medium group, someone (usually me, if I'm leading) will drop back with you and escort you to the cafe or check if you can get there on your own. However, this spoils my ride and I have to delegate leadership of the main group to someone else, since I can't be off the back and at the front at the same time.

I don't mind if someone comes with us once and finds they can't keep up the pace of our medium group, but I'd get annoyed if someone kept doing it, as the slow ride is there for them. The faster ride are even less tolerant of stragglers. They will wait, but will complain loudly about it afterwards.

[Grandad]

Must be able to ride a minimum of 50 miles (with a short cafe stop) at an average speed of 13 mph.

Attend a new members briefing.
1.  Book a New Members' talk  You will receive an email explaining the purpose, venue, date of the next talk and asking for confirmation that you will be attending
2. The talk will take approximately 1.5 hours with the focus on group riding and safety.  At this talk you can book your place on the next induction ride
2. Successfully complete an induction ride
3. Pay annual (calendar year) membership- by debit/credit card or PayPal.  Payment is refundable within the first month if you decide not to remain a member.

From the website of a club who I suspect have no problems with slow riders

[RickH]

Must be able to ride a minimum of 50 miles (with a short cafe stop) at an average speed of 13 mph.

Attend a new members briefing.
1.  Book a New Members' talk  You will receive an email explaining the purpose, venue, date of the next talk and asking for confirmation that you will be attending
2. The talk will take approximately 1.5 hours with the focus on group riding and safety.  At this talk you can book your place on the next induction ride
2. Successfully complete an induction ride
3. Pay annual (calendar year) membership- by debit/credit card or PayPal.  Payment is refundable within the first month if you decide not to remain a member.

From the website of a club who I suspect have no problems with slow riders

In contrast to British Cycling's easier ride levels with their Let's Ride programme

Easygoing

Our Easygoing rides are geared towards all ages and abilities, making them the perfect choice if you haven’t cycled for a while or are looking to get your friends or kids in the saddle.

The rides go at a gentle pace and will often take place in a relaxed, traffic-free environment. No-one is left behind!

Distance: 3-6 miles
Duration: 1 hour
Speed: 5-6mph

Steady

If you’re looking to broaden your cycling horizons, our Steady rides are a great next step.

The rides will usually take place on quieter roads, and while you might encounter the occasional hill along the way, it won’t be anything too taxing.

Distance: 6-20 miles
Duration: 2-2.5 hours
Speed: 7-10mph

(link)

Maybe more realistic for beginners?

[Vorpal]

No need for a tow-rope: it's possible to push a rider in difficulties without much fuss, although your arm begins to ache after a while. I fancy plenty of members of traditional clubs might have had that helping hand for the last few miles on their first club run.

I needed that help on my first club run after my second child. I had done one ride of 25 miles and that went well, so I planned a club run.

The night before, Littlest was up alot, so I didn't get much sleep, but I needed the break and the day out, so I wasn't going to let a little thing like lack of sleep stop me

I rode down to the starting point (11ish miles) and left on the club run. I felt the bonk coming on ~25 miles into the ride (36 for me). I stopped and had my banana and put the 'emergency' energy drink mix in my water bottle and had some of that. I made it another 4 miles; luckily, it was only a couple of miles from the cafe we'd planned for a lunch stop, so a couple of club mates took it in turns to push me, rather than one or more going at my pitiful pace.

I was fine after lunch, but I turned off for home when we got back to my area, rather than riding back down to the start point for afternoon tea.

[Cyril Haearn]

Must be able to ride a minimum of 50 miles (with a short cafe stop) at an average speed of 13 mph.

Attend a new members briefing.
1.  Book a New Members' talk  You will receive an email explaining the purpose, venue, date of the next talk and asking for confirmation that you will be attending
2. The talk will take approximately 1.5 hours with the focus on group riding and safety.  At this talk you can book your place on the next induction ride
2. Successfully complete an induction ride
3. Pay annual (calendar year) membership- by debit/credit card or PayPal.  Payment is refundable within the first month if you decide not to remain a member.

From the website of a club who I suspect have no problems with slow riders

Sounds a bit like enlisting in the army
Probably one has to wear uniform too

[Audax67]

Before our UAF Audax rides we had "morning prayers", with the n°1 road captain telling everyone what to expect. It only took about 5 minutes, though: they learnt the rest on the road.

I always had two road captains up front and, ideally, two at the back, with one of these riding up the pack periodically to have a natter and make sure everyone was OK. If anyone fell back, one of the captains would stay with them, help fix punctures etc., and bring them back. We nursed quite a few future long-distance riders that way: one guy who was delighted to do his first ever 100k with us ended up doing our 600 as well. Another novice has since done 5 Diagonales de France, all over 1000k against the clock.