Group Rides - being left behind

[NUKe]

I think it is down to the Club to classify their rides, And for riders to make sure they are of the correct ability, If the ride is not going to wait for people of slower ability then say so at the start.

it is often useful for a couple of the faster riders to ride at the back then if there is an issue they can sprint to the front and inform the ride leader.
Sprinting to the teashop is the 11th commandment.

[Grandad]

Grandad wrote:
In the end you don't enjoy it as much, therefore you quit riding


Or find a group that matches your ability. Many clubs have 2 or more differing groups. Mine has 9 every Saturday and 6 others throughout the rest of the week. That's probably why/because we have just under 500 members.


I suspect you must live in a densely populated area too?

County town - population in 2014 was 161,800, projected for 2017 is 168,100 (that probably doesn't take into account the current rash of new housing being built).

[PH]

I think it is down to the Club to classify there rides,

Just that. The idea that all club rides by all clubs have to be the same is absurd, the only time it's an issue is if there's been a lack of communication and understanding.
On my local CTC rides the group sometimes gets fragmented and stops to regroup, there shouldn't be a single rider left off the back for any time, if there is it's a problem with the way the ride is being run rather than any rider's ability. I've been on other club runs where the route has been given out and if you drop off the back that's it, find your own way home, there's nothing wrong with that, it's just not for me.

[Ben@Forest]

But if you're the tail end charlie, then you don't get to rest at the top of the hill like all the others.
Or if you do then it's not as long.
This makes you more tired -> slower -> less rest -> etc, etc.

This of course works both ways - if someone is slower and the rest of the group has to wait for them at this time of year then they get cold when having to stop frequently. I suppose if you're the one who is either too quick or too slow you are the person who is in the wrong group and you need to change groups (or not moan if you're a faster rider and have to wait often).

However it really depends on group size - our Sunday morning rides are currently relatively well attended with 4 regular slower riders and up to 12 faster riders, but it sometimes it has been as low as three or four in total - in which case you really have to accommodate everyone's needs or abilities.

[mjr]

This of course works both ways - if someone is slower and the rest of the group has to wait for them at this time of year then they get cold when having to stop frequently.

That's their own silly fault for not carrying enough clothes with them. If they're that fast, a rack bag ain't gonna slow them down so much they're out the back. Besides, the weather can change a lot in half a day, let alone a day, so it's good to carry a layer or two that you could put on, as well as have space to store any taken off. Alternative, ride loops while waiting to keep warm - maybe as Si says, back down to accompany the rest of the group.

[mnichols]

I wonder whether Strava has made this worse?

On joining my current club i noticed that the 'Fast Group' would take it easy for bits of the ride and then at a seemingly random point it would break out into a sprint. This was repeated for the whole ride. At the end i was exhausted but noticed that even with the drafting it was slower than riding on my own

When I asked about this behaviour I was told the bit where they sprinted and I struggled to hold on were the Strava segments

[foxyrider]

I wonder whether Strava has made this worse?

On joining my current club i noticed that the 'Fast Group' would take it easy for bits of the ride and then at a seemingly random point it would break out into a sprint. This was repeated for the whole ride. At the end i was exhausted but noticed that even with the drafting it was slower than riding on my own

When I asked about this behaviour I was told the bit where they sprinted and I struggled to hold on were the Strava segments

Round here they'd be sprinting all the time, just about every metre of road has a Strava segment!

When I rode with clubs the. Rule was that no one got left behind, no one complained, if they wanted a fast intense ride they could go out on their own. Another club had a rule that if one person had to stop and walk on a climb (there are a few round here!) no one could pass them so you either walked or rode very slowly. Yes there were the cafe sprints etc but no one got left mid ride.

I've been on both ends and yes the feeling of slipping away can be dispiriting but it's hardly the end of the world. I'm too big to be a good climber so I always try to start the climbs near the front of a group, sometimes it works, sometimes not but trying to hang on to a 70kg whippet whilst giving away 15kg or more is just a hiding to nothing, I can go faster downhill! Play to your strengths.

[Annoying Twit]

When I rode with clubs the. Rule was that no one got left behind, no one complained, if they wanted a fast intense ride they could go out on their own. Another club had a rule that if one person had to stop and walk on a climb (there are a few round here!) no one could pass them so you either walked or rode very slowly. Yes there were the cafe sprints etc but no one got left mid ride.

No overtaking on a hill seems a rather odd rule. I would have thought that waiting at the top would be ample consideration for slower riders/climbers.

[tatanab]

No overtaking on a hill seems a rather odd rule. I would have thought that waiting at the top would be ample consideration for slower riders/climbers.

One CTC DA I rode with in the late 70s had the rule that "thou shalt not pass the ride leader". On my first ride with them, the leader dismounted and so did everybody else - except me. As a new boy to their DA I did not know this rule. I was soundly told off for that. Mind you, I got my own back a few years later when I was leader on a very windy day. Nobody would pass me to give me shelter, so I took them the hardest and dirtiest way back that I could find. I know that group doesn't not ride like that any more.

[Vorpal]

No overtaking on a hill seems a rather odd rule. I would have thought that waiting at the top would be ample consideration for slower riders/climbers.

On some climbs, that would mean that the stronger riders get miles ahead of the ones who need to walk a bit or spin up slowly. If the cafe is at the top, they might get there 20 minutes before the rest.

It can also be extremely discouraging if there are just one or two people struggling at the back. I had a clubmate who underwent chemotherapy, but still turned up for the clubruns most Sundays. No one left her behind. No one left me behind when I was pregnant.

There is no need for it.

OK, if it's a 50 metre climb and you can see the top, it's not a big deal. But it still isn't necessary.

[Annoying Twit]

No overtaking on a hill seems a rather odd rule. I would have thought that waiting at the top would be ample consideration for slower riders/climbers.

On some climbs, that would mean that the stronger riders get miles ahead of the ones who need to walk a bit or spin up slowly. If the cafe is at the top, they might get there 20 minutes before the rest.

It can also be extremely discouraging if there are just one or two people struggling at the back. I had a clubmate who underwent chemotherapy, but still turned up for the clubruns most Sundays. No one left her behind. No one left me behind when I was pregnant.

There is no need for it.

OK, if it's a 50 metre climb and you can see the top, it's not a big deal. But it still isn't necessary.

There are no hills around me that would split a group up that much. I did think of the hill outside of Spa Francochamps train station which leads to the racing track in Belgium. That's a monster, and the biggest hill I've ever ridden up. The hill from Cheltenham up into the Cotswolds is pretty big, but I've never been there on a group ride (and am very unlikely to.)

But, I live in Leicestershire where it's flat and there aren't any huge hills. Hence, all group rides that I have been on have been ones where it is reasonable to wait at the top. And, I wouldn't consider that being 'left behind', but this is in context, not a universal thing.

If there were bigger hills, then I think I'd personally suggest breaking the hill into stages, and having the faster riders wait for everyone to regroup several times up the hill before I'd suggest having a no overtaking rule.

When I said that I thought the rule was odd, it's not a matter of me thinking that not leaving people behind is odd. Just that particular way of achieving it. I fully approve of not leaving people behind. But, personally have no trouble with being left a few hundred metres behind before regrouping. But, that's a personal opinion, not something that I claim to be an objective fact that others should agree with.

[NUKe]

I wonder whether Strava has made this worse?

On joining my current club i noticed that the 'Fast Group' would take it easy for bits of the ride and then at a seemingly random point it would break out into a sprint. This was repeated for the whole ride. At the end i was exhausted but noticed that even with the drafting it was slower than riding on my own

When I asked about this behaviour I was told the bit where they sprinted and I struggled to hold on were the Strava segments

Sprinting is not something new. I remember riding with the Calder Clarion back in the 70's, The fast group would sprint for village signs, on well known rides you find people via for position 2 to 3 or more miles away lining up for that last 500 yards, its where we learned race craft.

[whoof]

Group riding is about as diverse an activity as riding. As others have commented the key is that it's explained in advance how the group will ride and then people who participate adhere to this. Stating that a group should or shouldn't do this and that only relates to the group you ride with or how you would like to ride. For example café stops, I've ridden with groups who never stopped whereas the local CTC ride advertises CPPC stops (café, pub, pub, café) on a single ride. Neither are wrong it's just each way suites different folk.

[foxyrider]

No overtaking on a hill seems a rather odd rule. I would have thought that waiting at the top would be ample consideration for slower riders/climbers.

On some climbs, that would mean that the stronger riders get miles ahead of the ones who need to walk a bit or spin up slowly. If the cafe is at the top, they might get there 20 minutes before the rest.

It can also be extremely discouraging if there are just one or two people struggling at the back. I had a clubmate who underwent chemotherapy, but still turned up for the clubruns most Sundays. No one left her behind. No one left me behind when I was pregnant.

There is no need for it.

OK, if it's a 50 metre climb and you can see the top, it's not a big deal. But it still isn't necessary.

There are no hills around me that would split a group up that much. I did think of the hill outside of Spa Francochamps train station which leads to the racing track in Belgium. That's a monster, and the biggest hill I've ever ridden up. The hill from Cheltenham up into the Cotswolds is pretty big, but I've never been there on a group ride (and am very unlikely to.)

But, I live in Leicestershire where it's flat and there aren't any huge hills. Hence, all group rides that I have been on have been ones where it is reasonable to wait at the top. And, I wouldn't consider that being 'left behind', but this is in context, not a universal thing.

If there were bigger hills, then I think I'd personally suggest breaking the hill into stages, and having the faster riders wait for everyone to regroup several times up the hill before I'd suggest having a no overtaking rule.

When I said that I thought the rule was odd, it's not a matter of me thinking that not leaving people behind is odd. Just that particular way of achieving it. I fully approve of not leaving people behind. But, personally have no trouble with being left a few hundred metres behind before regrouping. But, that's a personal opinion, not something that I claim to be an objective fact that others should agree with.

Well for what its worth it didn't happen a lot but some climbs like Sir William and Winnats Pass with grades of 20-25% pretty much guaranteed a walk! We have quite a few climbs in these parts that last several miles, not always steeply but often steep enough to cause problems for less able riders and everyone accepted that the Sunday run was not the place to be flexing your fitness and prowess! It also was quite common to get in some offroad riding during the day - long before (30 plus years!) gravel bikes became a thing, you certainly learnt how to handle your bike over the moors, on sandy/rocky tracks in the dark with only never ready lights to see with! but no one was ever left behind unless by personal choice.

[hondated]

No overtaking on a hill seems a rather odd rule. I would have thought that waiting at the top would be ample consideration for slower riders/climbers.

On some climbs, that would mean that the stronger riders get miles ahead of the ones who need to walk a bit or spin up slowly. If the cafe is at the top, they might get there 20 minutes before the rest.

It can also be extremely discouraging if there are just one or two people struggling at the back. I had a clubmate who underwent chemotherapy, but still turned up for the clubruns most Sundays. No one left her behind. No one left me behind when I was pregnant.

There is no need for it.

OK, if it's a 50 metre climb and you can see the top, it's not a big deal. But it still isn't necessary.

There are no hills around me that would split a group up that much. I did think of the hill outside of Spa Francochamps train station which leads to the racing track in Belgium.

Ridden that hill many times and never had a problem ! Should add though always been on a motorbike.

Question Is a 15 mile at 15mph a reasonable speed for a beginner ?