Flashing or Steady Lights?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
hufty
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Re: Flashing or Steady Lights?

Post by hufty »

BigFoz wrote:I use a back light that has 2 independent rows of LEDs, set the bottom on steady and the top on Knight Rider type scroll..

It might be a good idea to check what this actually look like from a distance - I had a similar light in the past and it looked great close up but having a constant light so close to a flashing/sweeping light diminished the impact of the flashing/sweeping I thought. (I have a dynamo now so constant front and back.)
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busb
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Re: Flashing or Steady Lights?

Post by busb »

Does anyone know why flashing modes were introduced? Was it to prolong battery life? Was it to increase cyclist's visibility? Was it to sell more lights?
pwa
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Re: Flashing or Steady Lights?

Post by pwa »

busb wrote:Does anyone know why flashing modes were introduced? Was it to prolong battery life? Was it to increase cyclist's visibility? Was it to sell more lights?


My possibly unreliable memory tells me that the first flashing LED rear lights used this function to extend battery life. It could be that flashing red lights then came to mean "cyclist" to other road users.

One of each for me in conditions that require lighting.
tatanab
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Re: Flashing or Steady Lights?

Post by tatanab »

pwa wrote:My possibly unreliable memory tells me that the first flashing LED rear lights used this function to extend battery life. It could be that flashing red lights then came to mean "cyclist" to other road users.
The early "steady" lights (Vista lights) were also flashing, just too fast to be seen. This extended battery life as you say. I believe the noticeable flash is another import from the USA. In the early/mid 90s I was riding there and flashing lights were common, and even that long ago there were some strobe lights powerful enough for day use.
kwackers
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Re: Flashing or Steady Lights?

Post by kwackers »

pwa wrote:
busb wrote:Does anyone know why flashing modes were introduced? Was it to prolong battery life? Was it to increase cyclist's visibility? Was it to sell more lights?


My possibly unreliable memory tells me that the first flashing LED rear lights used this function to extend battery life. It could be that flashing red lights then came to mean "cyclist" to other road users.

One of each for me in conditions that require lighting.

Not sure about that. The first ones were pretty rubbish, they just used a few 'standard' led's so weren't bright and used very little power. A couple of AA's would power them for many hours - if someone had simply used the led's with the more common 'D' cells used in bike lights back then they'd have run for weeks.

The first time I saw them my first thoughts where how visible they were despite their dimness. Flashing lights were rare and we simply weren't used to seeing them so they stuck out like sore thumbs.
That's why I bought mine back then.

These days their popularity and the fact they advertise 'bike' have diminished their usefulness somewhat.
busb
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Re: Flashing or Steady Lights?

Post by busb »

A few years back, I was stationary at a T junction waiting to turn right onto an A road, A van coming towards me from my left was turning across me & missed me by an inch. My front light was flashing probably once a second. I did wonder if this was a contributing factor of nearly being hit by a vehicle travelling roughly 20mph. The junction was well-lit so the driver should have seen me even if I had no lights (like half the cyclists I encounter in Reading), the driver should have seen me.
My view is that flashing only lights should not be sold - no front light IMO should be completely off at any point until switch off. I currently use a pulsed continuous mode of about 100Lm with 1' repeat of a pretty bright short duration pulse.
As for banning flashing front lights, I'd be happy to see any front light, I am not kidding when I estimate that 50% of cyclists don't in Reading.
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Pastychomper
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Re: Flashing or Steady Lights?

Post by Pastychomper »

busb wrote:A few years back, I was stationary at a T junction waiting to turn right onto an A road, A van coming towards me from my left was turning across me & missed me by an inch. My front light was flashing probably once a second. I did wonder if this was a contributing factor of nearly being hit by a vehicle travelling roughly 20mph. The junction was well-lit so the driver should have seen me even if I had no lights (like half the cyclists I encounter in Reading), the driver should have seen me.
My view is that flashing only lights should not be sold - no front light IMO should be completely off at any point until switch off. I currently use a pulsed continuous mode of about 100Lm with 1' repeat of a pretty bright short duration pulse.
As for banning flashing front lights, I'd be happy to see any front light, I am not kidding when I estimate that 50% of cyclists don't in Reading.


I agree about slow-flashing lights - I've posted elsewhere about the time I almost missed seeing a jogger at a corner because his light was off when I came around.

I think flashing lights were great when most LED lights were the pathetic things Kwackers described - the same ones that were green before about 1999. I remember my Dad (who, unlike me, drove a car at the time) commenting on how much more attention-grabbing the flashers were, which was a good thing when they were compared to something that could be mistaken for a candle in a nearby house. Nowadays I've gone off them, preferring trackable, steady lights lights front and back.

Around here it's common to see tractors or quads being driven around with yellow flashers/chasers on top (plus the usual lights of course). On a dark night it gives a hint that there's something unusual coming up, as well as some idea of scale which is helpful when the only other visible parts of the vehicle are a pair of lights that turn out to be an unusual size/brightness. I sometimes wonder if flashing yellow head or shoulder lights would be a good idea for rural rides.
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busb
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Re: Flashing or Steady Lights?

Post by busb »

Pastychomper wrote:
busb wrote:A few years back, I was stationary at a T junction waiting to turn right onto an A road, A van coming towards me from my left was turning across me & missed me by an inch. My front light was flashing probably once a second. I did wonder if this was a contributing factor of nearly being hit by a vehicle travelling roughly 20mph. The junction was well-lit so the driver should have seen me even if I had no lights (like half the cyclists I encounter in Reading), the driver should have seen me.
My view is that flashing only lights should not be sold - no front light IMO should be completely off at any point until switch off. I currently use a pulsed continuous mode of about 100Lm with 1' repeat of a pretty bright short duration pulse.
As for banning flashing front lights, I'd be happy to see any front light, I am not kidding when I estimate that 50% of cyclists don't in Reading.


I agree about slow-flashing lights - I've posted elsewhere about the time I almost missed seeing a jogger at a corner because his light was off when I came around.

I was waiting at a junction on the way home to turn into a side road (actually in the junction, otherwise the lights would have gone red) - the last vehicle passed but it partially hid a cyclist whom I nearly rode into - decent brakes saved me (& him). I can't remember if his inadequate front light was flashing or not! I did say sorry. Since then, I tend to watch out with greater attention for other cyclists at junctions!
to clarify: I mean lights that have a flash mode that has a significantly long off period. I do tend to notice flashing cycle lights more than steady - from a distance, that is.
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tykeboy2003
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Re: Flashing or Steady Lights?

Post by tykeboy2003 »

I Never use flashing lights, nothing better identifies you as a cyclist. Leave them guessing, they might actually have to think and the delay may stop them going into "must overtake the cyclist" mode....
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Flashing or Steady Lights?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

The utility cyclist wrote:24 years ago when I started car commuting early mornings to the edge of London and latterly into/around London for work I fell into the daytime lights trap (after reading some stats/blurb in Scandinavia) and used to run them all the time, then I stopped about 4-5 years later after learning more and being rear ended sitting at a set of traffic lights.

Interesting. Could you explain a bit more about this rear ending? I can't see how being rear ended would have anything to do with your headlights, whether day or night, steady or flashing or whatever.

FWIW having lived in places with compulsory daytime headlights (for motor vehicles, not bicycles!*) I think they can be beneficial in some places due to a combination of the dominant driving style and the local topography with long, straight, flat roads and low-ish traffic density. They have no place in towns or on rural lanes, and the conditions I've just referred to are not found in any part of Britain I know (partly due to our move away from 3-lane highways).

*Though I do seem to recall hearing that DRLs are now compulsory on new bikes in Germany.
De Sisti
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Re: Flashing or Steady Lights?

Post by De Sisti »

This topic comes up again and again. I didn't realise there was anything more left to say the subject. :roll:
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Flashing or Steady Lights?

Post by The utility cyclist »

Bmblbzzz wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:24 years ago when I started car commuting early mornings to the edge of London and latterly into/around London for work I fell into the daytime lights trap (after reading some stats/blurb in Scandinavia) and used to run them all the time, then I stopped about 4-5 years later after learning more and being rear ended sitting at a set of traffic lights.

Interesting. Could you explain a bit more about this rear ending? I can't see how being rear ended would have anything to do with your headlights, whether day or night, steady or flashing or whatever.

FWIW having lived in places with compulsory daytime headlights (for motor vehicles, not bicycles!*) I think they can be beneficial in some places due to a combination of the dominant driving style and the local topography with long, straight, flat roads and low-ish traffic density. They have no place in towns or on rural lanes, and the conditions I've just referred to are not found in any part of Britain I know (partly due to our move away from 3-lane highways).

*Though I do seem to recall hearing that DRLs are now compulsory on new bikes in Germany.

I said using lights in the daytime not headlights so the rears were on too, clearly it made jack all difference. IIRC even volvo's had the rear lights come on with their DRLs, I had a MKII Astra. The last time I was rear ended it was a kid on his mobile phone about 17 years ago and despite running with side lights in urban areas only no-one seems to have not noticed me.
More lights on cars/bikes = worse conditions/lower visibility and lower level of 'looking and seeing' IMHO
Warin61
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Re: Flashing or Steady Lights?

Post by Warin61 »

Bmblbzzz wrote:
The utility cyclist wrote:FWIW having lived in places with compulsory daytime headlights (for motor vehicles, not bicycles!*) I think they can be beneficial in some places due to a combination of the dominant driving style and the local topography with long, straight, flat roads and low-ish traffic density.


Permanent headlights on were made compulsory on motorcycles in Australia for some time. After some years the statistics were looked at - it made no flamin difference. People who could not see a motorcycle without a headlight on also could not see a motorcycle with its headlight on. The law was imposed by the actions of one politician (one Mr Brown, who I will long remember :evil: ) who thought it would be a good idea. I think the same people who cannot see a motorcycle will not see big long trains, brightly painted trucks, that some people call fire engines, ... and they cannot hear sirens either.
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The utility cyclist
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Re: Flashing or Steady Lights?

Post by The utility cyclist »

Warin61 can you modify your post to show that the words you quoted belong to Bmblbzzz and not myself. thnx
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Cunobelin
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Re: Flashing or Steady Lights?

Post by Cunobelin »

tatanab wrote:
pwa wrote:My possibly unreliable memory tells me that the first flashing LED rear lights used this function to extend battery life. It could be that flashing red lights then came to mean "cyclist" to other road users.
The early "steady" lights (Vista lights) were also flashing, just too fast to be seen. This extended battery life as you say. I believe the noticeable flash is another import from the USA. In the early/mid 90s I was riding there and flashing lights were common, and even that long ago there were some strobe lights powerful enough for day use.


Pro nicely the RAC still badge and sell these very Vista lights (Including the green LEDS for the front) as bicycle lights
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